So, after I hit send. I knew there was about a 99% chance that you would ignore what I said and respond negatively in a desperate attempt to cover ones own backside. Seems I was right.
You are what we call "a poorly researched consumer".
Here is one of your assumptions. You do not know how much I researched. Where my sources came from. Though I did respond to this already.
The mere fact that you don't understand what stages mean says more than enough already but if you think that "I spent money, therefore I should have a "proper state" to test it". is indeed an indicator that you have never researched or tried to understand what happens during test phases.
You might think you are being logical in your answer. That's the issue with illogical people. They don't realize they are illogical. I said, specifically, "if you spend money and you are given access to a game, it should be in a proper state to test." This has nothing to do with my understanding of the correct categorization of a development state. What I consider a proper state for testing a game has nothing to do with your assumption of my lack of knowledge. Keep in mind, you've offered little to prove your claim that I haven't done research or know little about development. You've simply made the claim, thus it should be so?
As for the other pointers that supports my case that you don't do any research before jumping in to an Alpha test game.
I will reiterate, that I've watched nearly every Youtube video that I could get my hands on. I'm here on the forums, engaging in civil discourse (from my perspective, at least), I have watched all of the Q&A videos, I am an active member of the Fractured discord. I have decades of experience in testing. If that isn't research, then you clearly have a seriously unreasonable expectation of what 'research' means.
- You haven't played Fractured yet you think it should be in beta already. -- I mean do you even know how much content is missing to call it a beta? On second thought, do you even know what "BETA TEST" means?
Yes. I know what a beta test means. This is one of those instances of you lying. I never said that I think it should be in beta. Quote me. You can't, because that doesn't exist. What I did say however, is this : "I haven't tested Fractured yet, but based on a lack of NDA and what I've seen. It seems the game falls closer into the category of beta. Requires more content, but isn't riddled with bugs and easily playable for hours on end." Falls closer to a category of beta is not the same as saying beta. It is also not the same as saying finished. Another lie that you imposed upon me. Claiming that I think this game should be finished if I pay for the game in an alpha state. That is a clear insertion of false information on your part.
- You insist that people who spent money on an alpha game are guaranteed a game at the end of the project tells me that you have not researched the fail rate of games on its alpha state, let alone how it can potentially deviate from its 'original plans'.
This is exactly what I was talking about. So again. Quote me. Show me that I said that. You can't. I have never said that. I have never even thought that in private. It is the opposite of my position. You are shoving words into my mouth and you obviously are under the foolish impression that I will allow you to get away with it.
- You compare games with another game that was obviously 'mislabelled' on its state.
I never mentioned another game. Here is another lie. There is nowhere in this thread where you will see me mention any other game title other than Fractured. What I did was make a statement of fact about development. I will further clarify. In the age of Indie development, with so many titles that are allowing access to alpha through a payment gateway, there is a vast range of development state. One game is a scam. The other untestable. The next is enough to test. Then you'll see a game that is close to beta, and completely able to be tested. Because of this, it is difficult to blame the consumer about what to expect. I've seen quite a lot of blame thrown around. I think it's unwarranted and I think it hurts the community.
- Have you even bothered reading the alpha test section of the forum and how much bugs we've experienced? or what delayed the last test by about a week because a game breaking bug was found hours before an open alpha test was about to launch?
I've answered this. But yes, I have. A week or two is almost an insignificant delay. I wouldn't knock Fractured for that.
- Do you even know the average play time of people who joined the alpha test last time to claim that it's "easily playable for hours on end".
I've answered this too. Go on Youtube and pay attention to the video lengths. You will find many streams that lasted an upwards of three to five hours. A lot of these streams are over a year old as well. So based on the lack of bugs, It's reasonable to believe that the overall primary game play is actually quite playable. Quite able to test.
You honestly need to research what you're saying and i'm not talking about going down the rabbit hole of Youtubers who have the same level of research skills as you.
and the reason why you guys fall for 'scammy' games on its so called "alpha" is because of your inability to conduct research so you're easily goaded into forking out your money.
You may be aware of the risks but you fail to understand the minute nuances behind development stages so you rely on your gut feelings to make a decision instead of dissecting and assessing what is being presented to you objectively.
You are legit what scammers want; poorly researched, gullible people.
I will lump all of these responses together. As it is quite clearly the rambling of someone trying to scramble to not lose the upper hand. I understand the desperation in your comments and I don't particularly blame you for them. It's only natural. But at some point you have to recognize that perhaps, through self reflection or being beaten into submission by real 'logic', that you may have made a huge mistake on who you decided to interact with here. All of these inane comments did nothing to prove to me, or anyone else reading this, how I am poorly researched. You've just made claims. No proof. No evidence. Just proclamations.
the mere fact that you sounded so confident about your opinions without having tested the game is just ridiculous. "~in my opinion, the game should be in its... early beta."
I am confident. I am right. It's easy to be confident when that is the case. I've never made an opinion on the current state of the game, outside of what I thought the state of the game might be. I made it clear that I haven't tested. I didn't hide it.
You may be wondering why my tone is so heavy and thats because people like you are legit one of the biggest reasons why games fail.
Desperation. Yes. And now you are blaming me for the failure of video game development now? This ought to be real interesting.
Poorly researched people ready to complain about things that they don't understand, because they dont understand development process they expect, push and demand for developers to reach certain milestones and rush production cause if theres 2 thousand other poorly researched consumers like you pitch in their poorly researched opinions, chances are other not so bright individuals like you will feel encouraged to start moaning about how much they dont understand in developmental stages.
Do you see where im getting at? idiotic statements needs to be corrected asap otherwise it'll propagate into a larger idiotic statement that will eventually cause problems for the development of the project.
No. What I see is a poster who has extreme difficulty disagreeing with people. And when that disagreement happens, you get incredibly defensive to the point of lying about people.
I was speaking in generalities. I'm not sure why you feel that attacking me is the right course of action. I know exactly what these stages mean, as I've been playing and testing games since the mid 90's. I've done more than my share of research, and I've been around long enough to see development practices change over time. That doesn't change the fact that new consumers will not understand what to expect simply due to there now being thousands of games in a stage of early access, and all thousand of them are unique and in various stages of development. Not talking about what label is slapped on it. I'm talking about an alpha game, being in near beta development. Then the next alpha game is more of a pre-alpha game, as it's nearly unplayable. The relatively new practice of pay to play alpha's has muddied the waters of what you should expect.
This has nothing to do with Fractured and has nothing to do with whether I've played the game or not. It has to do with my decades worth of experience in testing.
I did not say, anywhere in my response, that an alpha is a promise to a fully finished game. I would challenge you to quote me. You are just upset, and you are making things up to try and support your argument. But here, I'm not going to let you lie. I simply said that in an alpha, if you are a developer, you should provide a build of the game that is playable and testable. Nowhere did I say finished, complete, or full release.
I'm aware of some of the slight delays of Fractured, and I don't consider that to be an issue. I've also watched about every single Youtube video that I could find. Which is probably over 50 hours of unedited gameplay. Based on my experience, there seems to be very few actual gamebreaking bugs. However, it does seem to be missing some content. Which is exactly how I described Fractured. I did not try and hide my lack of actual gameplay experience, but I believe there are many things that my eyes alone can glean from all of that gameplay that would lead me to a reasonable expectation of what Fractured will provide. You appear to be too upset to recognize that fact though. From many streamers and content creators, they have said that they played for hours. And if you just look at the time stamps, you'd see that many of these people played for multiple hours. Sometimes up to 3-4 hours or more.
I feel that this is a perfect example of unreasonable fans of a game. Nothing I said was an attack on the game. But you viewed my generality as one. You then became so distraught by your incorrect perception of what I actually said, that you started filling in the gaps with things you've made up to make me seem worse than I actually am. You need to step back and re-read people's comments before you go and attack them for things they didn't actually do or say.
Not only does it make you look bad, but it makes the entire community look bad.
Note: I will leave this re-quote here so that everyone who hasn't, can read what I've said in full context. That way, they will understand how unreasonable you are being right now.
Are you capable of reading and responding to what anyone has said to you at all or are you just going to keep adding on whatever you felt like?
Explain.
I've addressed your points on your main response in a logical and thoughtful manner yet you did not respond to anything that i've stated at all but merely deflected them.
How have I deflected? Seems as though I have and am responding to you directly.
"I was speaking of generalities" when we're talking about a specific situation?
Am I supposed to respond only in the way you deem appropriate? Oh wait, that's a silly question.
again let's go back to these points.
Yes. Let's revisit how you're wrong. Where is that shovel?
You haven't played Fractured yet you think it should be in beta already. -- I mean do you even know how much content is missing to call it a beta? On second thought, do you even know what "BETA TEST" means?
I haven't tested Fractured yet ....It seems the game falls closer into the category of beta.
You insist that people who spent money on an alpha game are guaranteed a game at the end of the project tells me that you have not researched the fail rate of games on its alpha state, let alone how it can potentially deviate from its 'original plans'.
But ultimately, if you spend money and you are given access to a game, it should be in a proper state to test. (test* but doesnt even know what Alpha or Beta is in terms of testing.)
You compare games with another game that was obviously 'mislabelled' on its state.
Some alpha projects... Some are playable...
Have you even bothered reading the alpha test section of the forum and how much bugs we've experienced? or what delayed the last test by about a week because a game breaking bug was found hours before an open alpha test was about to launch?
Do you even know the average play time of people who joined the alpha test last time to claim that it's "easily playable for hours on end".re fact that you think 'research' is just "watching hours of gameplay" and looking at their timestamps brings me back to my point; "You honestly need to research what you're saying and i'm not talking about going down the rabbit hole of Youtubers who have the same level of research skills as you."
Yes, here we go. Everyone still with me?
Seeing as you've "tested games since the 90's" then I wonder why you seem to struggle to understand some of the very basic concepts of development stages, and even claim that "speaking in general" this game is "early beta" when it's nowhere near beta?
now you feel attacked when someone points out your flaws? toughen up, not everyone is going to sugar coat the hard pills to swallow for you.
Oh no. Not feel attacked. Am attacked. Big difference. Kind of like what you are about to do again a few lines below this. By the way. I wonder how content creators who frequent these boards would feel about you insulting them as well. Like Oxfurd and Nekrage.
Know what's actually bad for the community?
People who spouts out their opinion without any actual experience that encourages other half wits like them to spout out more stupid things.
Really? But people who are so distraught by dissenting opinions, who insult and lie about community members while providing absolutely zero evidence to support your claims is good for the community? I wonder how many people actually agree with you here.
"I feel that this is a perfect example of unreasonable fans of a game"
Your feelings have very little weight when people are dealing with facts and logic.
But thanks for your "feelings". Tell me again who's being an "unreasonable" fan.
The one that logically and rationally elaborated their thought process, or the one that jumped into conclusion?
"You then became so distraught by your incorrect perception of what I actually said..."
The only one distraught here is the person making assumptions about something they have very little knowledge of and are know being called out for it.
Address what i've said to you, not how you feel cause clearly your feelings mean very little to me.
edit:
"This has nothing to do with Fractured and has nothing to do with whether I've played the game or not. It has to do with my decades worth of experience in testing."
". You are just upset, and you are making things up to try and support your argument."
lmfao
what else did i say, not say and made up?
since you're the expert on feelings here, why dont you got ahead and tell me more about how i feel, particularly about the situation.
dont play that bs where you try and deflect or try to talk without specificities in fear of being called out. Remember, everything that you've said is written, we can always just scroll back up.
anyway, this brings me back to my previous point of why im so heavy handed on people like you.
You spout out things you dont understand and fail to be objective, but rely on their emotions to make a decision for them "you are upset waaah waaaah waaaaahhhh"
and if you think that ..."I've also watched about every single Youtube video that I could find." is research, i've got some bad news for you pal.
And all of this above is your attempt to push onto me what you can't handle yourself. By claiming I'm the one in the wrong. I've now called out your inane rabble in a very specific way. You asked. You've received. I suspect that you won't learn from this though. Your unreasonable and malicious nature is now directly in front of everyone. I hope you enjoyed this. I certainly didn't.
This will be the last time I post here. I have no interest in furthering this discussion. You can take it as a 'win' if you'd like Zori. I'm sure you will anyways.
