Without PvP, PvE is pointless as it has no purpose, especially in a game with no vertical progress.
But PvP-only playing can get boring, so PvE should be there atleast just for a change. It would be very nice if it'd be possible to solo very difficult content with appropriate skill, gear and preparation. In other words, it would be nice if PvE would be skill dependant as well, or atleast if it would give an opportunity to hunt much harder mobs for appropriate rewards.
@target said in Mouse / Keyboard control:
Assuming you can move and use abilities at the same time, it would be an advantage because you can aim in one direction while moving in the opposite which isn't possible with mouse only movement.
You can do the same with your mouse, the difference is your angles are not limited that way.
That is, if you can actually use your mouse properly.
@target said in Mouse / Keyboard control:
I don't think I've seen a game where that was a major part of the game's combat. It sounds pretty awkward and like it requires Korean levels of micro at the high skill end (which may or may not be a bad thing).
Here's an example of fixed camera WASD movement. To me it looks just as functional as click-to-move with the added benefit of being able to strafe and backpedal while attacking.
Pretty sure "strafing" won't be in the game, just usual "moving to the side" like in all arpgs.
In my opinion, a game can't really have both types of movement because combat plays out differently for each type. WASD movement caters to more actiony combat where dodging is essential and something you're always doing, and click-to-move combat is generally more about trading direct hits with minimized dodging. IIRC Prometheus has said something like 90% of skills will be skillshots which makes it sound like Fractured could really benefit from WASD controls, but I also acknowledge that designing a game around WASD movement is much more difficult and may not be something the devs want to put development resources into.
Dodging is essential in any pvp. And of course WASD movement is possible but it will play out the same, since players will stand still while casting/shooting/etc., since game is planned as point-and-click based.
Of course how "actiony" combat is, is also tied to abilities' mechanics. But in short, having WASD movement in the game where you can't shoot/hit on the go is pointless, will handicap player instead of giving him comfortable experience, and is only a matter of preference.
@kralith said in What can we learn from other similar pojects?:
Don‘t let the community too much influence your path of the game, especially not if the requested features don‘t follow the vision you have.
This pretty much.
Albion got destroyed because of bad game-design decisions, because they didn't filter their feedback well enough. So the most whiny people got what they wanted and the game became much worse.
I hope devs do read the forum, and this thread in particular.
I'll double the "keep your core vision". For example, I'd really like to see any vertical progression of a character, even if just a tiny one, and many other people will want the same, and many other things on top of that. Filter the feedback you gather, and don't try to implement feedback-based changes as fast as possible. Even if 80% of playerbase whines on some topic, it doesn't mean that you should change it. Analyze it all, come to conclusions, and then find the solution, gradually. Having some problem in your game that you've made yourselves, won't affect your playerbase as much as catering to some chosen fraction of players, which may be seen by players as changing of the game's direction, which may cause many people to leave, and in MMORPGs it's very hard to get your players to return, if you lose any of your initial fan/playerbase - it will be very hard to regain those numbers.
So don't copy others' mistakes and just make what you intended to make in the first place.
I'd probably buy some skins, special effects, whatever, depending on the game's quality.
For me personally, buying cosmetics is more about my gratitude to developers, and it allows them to get some money from me just when I feel like giving some money.
No updates? Is till have a weekly drawing quest 1000/1000 but I don't know if I got lucky one more time, or we didn't get any drawing updates so far.
(And guys give shop pls)
Good, as long as it can be looted by others.
@wolfkomodo46 Yeah, I heard that, we could also see in once of the videos that Uriel's earth walls could be jumped over by Prometheus' leaps, too, so it could work with various obstacles aswell. But you can do that in any game, and it's not enough to be considered a unique feature. I sure hope there is much more than that.
Btw it's a pity there is no "suggestions" section on the forum. It would make forum much more alive, tho 98% of those would be fantasies never to be implemented, or something already planned or looked into and discarded.
Can we expect some community contest in the near future? Like in a month or so?
@target said in Economy essentials:
Other systems that solo players can use to make money: farming, enchanting, and crafting (leatherworking, metalworking, carpentry, tanning, tailoring, bowyery, cooking, alchemy, pottery, jewelcrafting).
If it's literally farming, then all of the activies above don't motivate player to even leave the town where he can buy materials, and don't play well with the whole exploration concept of the game.
@prometheus legendary items can work as a status items - ones which are either barely better than usual once for x100 the cost, or they can contain certain mechanics which will bring both penalties and buffs for the player using the item, so maintaining the balance, but bringing a "cool rare feature", which won't affect the balance.
@target said in Economy essentials:
This is a sandbox, you have to find your own fun within the game's systems, and with Fractured being an MMO, most systems will have social aspects.
Agreed, but sandbox must be full of sand.
@target said in Economy essentials:
You would advocate for expansions of existing systems that aren't necessarily tied to social aspects of the game (like the knowledge system) or for more features that are solo friendly (like 1v1 arena tournaments). Gathering major resources is inherently not solo friendly, and, in my opinion, that's okay.
IMO everything instances (if you mean instanced arena tournaments), has no place in such games. And yeah, gathering alot of resources should be not solo friendly, but there should be the way for players to be financially independent solo.
Of course it would be nice to tie resourse gathering rate to player's skill and organization (if we're talking about a group of players), but it's a different topic.
@target said in Economy essentials:
Exploration, filling out your bestiary, acquiring crafting recipes, discovering skills and completing their tasks are the primary drivers of personal progression, and you can do most of it solo. Even if you get killed, you won't lose progress on those things.
I got that, yes. It can motivate me personally, as I love making builds. But let's assume there is a player who've got all the abilities he wanted. After that, what's his motivation? That's what I'm talking about. And eventually, every player will get everything he wants. Game won't survive on this alone, making those goal final would be a mistake, since those objectives are depletable.
@target said in Economy essentials:
If you're worried about not enough for solo players to do, I'm not sure focusing on the resource gathering part of the game is the way to go. Resource gathering influences the global economy of the game. A solo player mining some ores doesn't just affect them; it affects the person who comes after them who was looking to mine those ores (resources take time to respawn so locations can only sustain a limited number of players) and it affects the person who is selling those ores. It makes sense to me that other players should be able to use force to influence solo players who are affecting them economically.
True, and it should be the case the other way around. Everything should be interconnected. But if gathering resources is is a bad way to go, then what would be the good way? Rare reagent drops, fittable into inventory? Some kind of temporary buffs?
@target said in Economy essentials:
In one of the Q&As it was mentioned that small resources like gems and herbs will fit in your inventory. Basically anything that makes sense to fit in say, a backpack, will fit in your inventory. Anything that would be too big to realistically fit more than one in a backpack will have to be carried.
That's another good piece of info, so there will be motivation to go to faraway locations.
@target durability is interesting, but it can be implemented in various ways. As a currency, material, or item sink. Inventory being limited is a good thing to mention, I didn't think about inventory size as an item sink mechanic, really, players may drop some items just like they do in hack'n'slash type of games.
Talking about safer areas to gather resources, there was a problem in Albion for example (I will refer to Albion often, because it's similar in some aspects and offer little to no vertical progression), where as a solo player you could only gather solo, and do nothing else. Well, you could, like I did, but the amount of options is extremely limited, in contrast with group activity. I get it that MMORPGs must reward group activity, but they may also reward individual skill, if solo player has some, and give some gameplay options for players who're limited in time so they can't bind themselves to a guild and have a stable group play experience. Sometimes you just want to log in for an hour and have some good time without bothering anyone.
I'm not trying to advocate and ask for any carebearish mechanics (Babilis forbid!), but in this case, were you will have to gather resources only in "safe" zones, solo players, PvP and PvE/gathering alike, might be cut off big parts of the map, because they won't have a way to travel far and have a chance to bring anything back. Which will cause locations closer to town to turn into a clusterf?k, and faraway locations taken over by big guilds and alliances. Nothing bad about that at the first sight, but this way "safe" zones will have bigger concentration of players not for a good reason, but just because of lack of motivation to move further from those zones apart from the knowledge system mechanics, which, let's be honest, won't motivate people forever.
Maybe if gathering some herbs, talismans, something compact like that, wouldn't require a cart, but maybe a small bag to carry around as something reserving a part of your inventory, it'd solve the problem.
And one more line for better understanding - I'd go to maps overrun by big and hostile guilds to gather said herbs, because I'll have less competition because of the risk involved, and I'm ready to risk, but I wouldn't go there if that would require me carrying a cart around, which will guarantee loss of everything gathered, unless I'm just lucky, regardless of my skill.
And if building will really degrade fast and require let's say weekly maintenance, then it seems good plot limit is good aswell.
Thanks for your answers m8, seems like I've missed some valuable info.
Sure quality upgrade was just an example to show what I'm talking about. The flow of game economy was not discussed yet it seems, and I couldn't find what devs' ideas on this topic.
An approach to gradually destroy your gear is a bad way to go I think, since it's a free loot game, player that managed to not to lose his gear for a long time should be if not rewarded, then atleast not punished for this.
And talking about player stuctures, from what I've seen so far, people may just flood the server at release, and whoever is more experienced from alpha/beta, whoever has more time at the exact moment can just rush to gather some wood, let's say, and build himself an indestructable home, essentially grabbing all the avaliable land. What exactly prevents them from doing this? So far, I don't see anything.
Another thing that I'm kinda afraid of at this point, is that developers tend to underestimate players. Content that is thought to be defeated in 1 year can possibly be beat in 1 week, I saw that in many, many projects. So i think those who're more competitive will just bolt into the world and grab everything right from the start. Nothing bad with this, but there is no way to free a patch of land that's taken it seems.
From what I've seen on the alpha 1 map, it's pretty big, and the planet is going to be approximately 4 times bigger, plus two other planets about the same size, but still thinking that there will be enough space for everyone's structures is pessimistic, given that not every single millimeter of the map will be possible to build on.
Developers stated that they can change maps size according to amount of people playing, but it seems that usual flow of players, most of those won't be in the game 24/7, will create a situation that map will need to be big enough to contain enough free land for everyone, while in the same time with such a size of the map it will be hard to actually find other players in the world outside of towns and couple of other well known points of interest, which may create boring gameplay (kind of like in Albion again), when you can farm for hours while being completely safe because of no potential threats like gankers in your area, and boring gameplay for gankers where you roam kilometers of land for hours before you can meet a target.
Why don't you guys try to actually discuss something interesting instead of spamming in one thread? Forum would be much more alive if all of you posted your thought-through opinions instead of spamming for 1085 pages.
Best PvP is naturally occuring solo or small scale PvP. 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 2v2, etc.
Even better if it has a reason. For example, I want to gather magic mushrooms and catch fairy butterflies that can be found only in this area, and here is a guy that's giving me a competition for those. Of course he should be forced to leave this spot in a gruesome way.
Second best is coordinated small scale fights for resources. Say, 5 guys are mining carelessly. So another group appears and attacks them, and a fight ensures. Whoever wins, gets a cart full of good stuff.
Third best, is a siege scenario. Where you participate a town/castle/whatever siege as a guild member, as a mercenary, or as a guy who asked to join just for fun.
This might be the best PvP absolutely, if implemented right. Requires correct town/castle planning, various tasks, objectives and possibilities, so that every build will have something to do. Some hold the main gate, others press them. Some guard the smaller passages with smaller groups, some are doing infiltration, espionage kind of work, doing some kind of sabotaging and killing behind enemy lines, etc.
And this might be the worst, if it's implemented in a bad way, where sieges will end up as an AoE spam galore, with only "Tank", "Ranged DPS", and "Healer/support" type of characters having place in this clusterkek of a PvP (See: Albion).
@gofrit Probably. For example, I believe it was said somewhere that certain spells could freeze water. Let's say you can make yourself a narrow passage on top of the water, and then pass through it, turn around and either destroy it, drawning the chasers, or using this frost lazor button where enemies won't have any ways to avoid damage.
Building carts to block passages seems nice, but even if it'd be possible, it would require coordinated effort of several players, most likely. What about if you're wandering the world and the situation has turned the way, that this option of using obstacles to your advantage would benefit you alot?
For example, let's say there is a dungeon with different rooms, and somewhere we could have a mob called "cracked wall". It would essentially be just a mob, but also a piece of wall, looking exactly like other wall pieces. And so if you're almost cornered near it, you could hit it a couple of times to crush the wall and go into the room behind it, once again, bottlenecking enemies in a narrow passage or making new potential routes to escape.
Or, let's say, there is a rope bridge that you could cut or burn after going through it.
Or maybe some spell that would allow to go through obstacles temporarly, for like 1-3 seconds, for obvious uses, etc.
I wonder if something like this is planned.
While I'll probably bother people with how many threads I create, here's an important one.
What are the sources of ingame currency, and what are the mechanics to remove said currency from the game?
As many players know, if games would not have a currency removal systems through repair bills, various taxes, transportation/trading fees, etc. then currency becomes worthless and every tiny piece of equipment will cost alot, which may cause some trouble for new players in the future.
What are the mechanics to remove excessive items from the game?
And if there would be no item removal through trashing on death, destroying upon unsuccessful quality increase, etc., then item prices would deflate, which will make everything crafting-related very unprofitable and unrewarding.
What's the motivation for solo players to kill mobs or mine?
If people are playing in a group, it's understandable that they can go mine together and probably repel attacks conducted on them, however if you're a solo player, with current mechanics, where, as it seems, player will need to pull his cart around with him, he'll be very vulnerable to such attacks, and let's be realistic - such attacks will take place (I'll make sure). So it seems like mining is not an option.
And if solo player travels across the world and meets some mobs - why would he kill them if he can't carry resources around (as he's probably not carrying his cart around with him), and if they don't give anything of a value? Maybe they drop something like enchantments, gemstones, whatever else what may be expensive enough to bother and easily carriable in player's inventory?
Is currency stored locally or globally?
I wonder if currency is magically stored in a fantasy bank upon obtaining, or if players will have to carry the needed amount with them at all times.
For example, in Albion Online chest hunting was a thing. One chest could give about 40k currency, while my character's full gear set was around 10k. I was farming in black zones (free pvp with no restrictions), so like everyone else there I was in constant danger, and even tho I almost didn't die, Albion's global currency storage allowed me to get profit asap, without any need to get out of black zones alive, which is a major part of Albion as a sandbox pvp (Sigh) game. As Fractured features the same idea where you can be killed any moment for your loot (unless you're playing as a furry), it's possible that with global currency storage getting currency straight from humanoid mobs (I believe humanoid mobs with currency drops are planned) will overshadow other ways of farming that includes potentially dangerious transporting of farmed goods.
Structures indestructability and low resource requirement
Another thing that bothers me, is that it's been said that players' structures can't be destroyed. Another thing that adds more concern - low resourse requirements because of the games' "no grinding" philosophy.
It may cause first players in the game to flood planets with their structures, which are indestructable and eternal, leaving no place for newcomers' structures, influencing income of new players (and all the moni they bring) in a bad way.
Is there some kind of amortization expenses mechanic, or something? That would make players spend resourses gradually over time to keep their structures in place, preventing them from crumbling and freeing the land plot for others to build.
NPC vendors' place in the game
As NPC vendors will probably take place, atleast as a currency sink, what will they be able to offer? What would be their purpose?