Best posts made by Ekadzati

Re: Weary MMO traveler seeks home...

I will be a beastfolk and likely never be seen on the other two offerings. My husband and I will likely be merchant crafters, nomads, and good Samaritans.

What drew me to this offering? Well, it's basically UO in a better engine with actual, bleeding edge tech that is scale-able as well as mod-able.

Actually, what drew me to this offering was a combination of moments:

• CEO Kickstarter that I could have written. Point by point nailed me as "your audience" from the start.
• The pitch has been backed by iterative updates and examples that show me you're not just talk and delayed dates.
• The way that your lead designer nods as your CEO speaks; the way that your CEO listens to the point of forgetting to look at the camera (which means he's verifying his own information and changing it if needed... team strength epic. It comforts me as an investor and a gamer).
• Sitting with my husband and watching the Kickstarter about an hour ago and watching him go through precisely the reaction I had when I started following you (strategic PR splash was en pointe!).
• Getting his enthusiastic permission to spend what we both know is windfall money on this game because it's the only way I'll have it and I MUST HAVE IT. Heh.

You folks are doing more to advance MMO gaming than anyone in the industry right now... it is not without irony that I say your node implementation is a fraction of Fractured (grin) and your only real competitor doesn't seem to understand you've actually done precisely what the market has asked you to do - give each of us the experience we want and let us PAY YOU RICHLY for being wise enough to do so.

So, yeah. I don't really "fan gran" about things, like, ever.... and other people from other places will quickly point you to placed where I am much less sociable.

This game will fail only by effort, I think. Or if they run out of cash. Which I can't imagine, given the partnership with Improbable. I have loved Improbable long time (since they were pitching city management) and was among those who pointed them at gaming... I like seeing tech that's meant to be together finally meet.

I didn't realize when we sat down today to look at the original presentation that there was actually an alpha coming like, tomorrow.

Karma has been kind. I cannot imagine why, but I'm hella happy to be here (as you can see).

Hello, world.

This game reminds me (and creates in me) a sense of delight that I have not had since Ultima Online. Thank you, @Prometheus for that, even if nothing else (and there's plenty else!).

What matters most to me in MMOs is continuous improvements on supporting levels of social contracting between players. I often feel the genre has stagnated because current design mechanics never seem to make time for deeper social contracting. What I mean by this is having the ability, in the game, to create, commit, and complete contracts. Specifically, in a many-to-many relation so you get layers of potential for emergent styles of player contracting (e.g., economy, trade, supply chain, governance, reputation, etc).

Another reason I want to see this progress for the genre (industry, frankly) is that PvP consistently fails in the genre due to a lack of formality in social contracting (which provide the means by which emergent and informal cultures and systems can develop in the community). Or, as this article succinctly put it, deliver "deliberate accessibility" as well as checks and balances on enforceability to mitigate the kinds of things this article presents.

As CCP has discovered, that 2012 article was pretty spot on, as this more recent admission reveals.

I've never understood why there seems so much resistance to the notion of effectively bridging the abyss created (in error, I assert) by dividing PvE and PvP in the first place. Creating that false premise that it could ever be possible to have a realistic world without realistic systems of social contracting.

To truly elevate the art and science of the MMO, you have to be willing to break it until it's fixed. (Admittedly, this is what the market has been doing for the last 8 years or so, still, few avail themselves of the lessons because, ultimately, most are still married to the idea that it's impossible to accurately reflect real world systems.)

Tools like SpatialOS and savvy analytics now offer the opportunity to offload much of the heavy lifting, AND there are considerable reams of relevant, recent research to assist in refactoring and improving, well, everything. It remains that the more realistic the algorithm, the more realistic the world, and the more likely that emergent uniqueness needed (on SO many levels!) can arise.

So I guess you'd say what matters most to me in an MMO is how well it supports mutually realistic systems of relation, contract, and enforcement.

I mean, why shouldn't PvP players be lauded for protecting the server? Why shouldn't there be crime statistics telling players the reputation of the areas belonging to certain others? Why shouldn't there be war between nations, religions, and beliefs that mean more than who got points on a leaderboard?

For example, I really liked the way Archeage tried to go about it, but the community has lost something important... a reason to care about the community experience unless it directly benefits their personal experience. We're all just... potential targets now. That's not realism... and it's not fun.

I was going to go back and add in more links, but this is already long and most won't care to read such long, nerdy things anyway, I'll not.

((That'll teach you not to ask me an open ended question!!))

Female biped, generally harmless in small doses. Love computers, coffee, cats, my hubby, and of course, gaming.

Started with The Well, MOOs, MUDs, and MUSHes, co-sys's alongside BBS legend Rodney Aloia, got into gaming with Pong. Then a string of games typical of someone calling themselves "highly engaged" - Meridian 59, Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, W.I.S.H., Shadowbane, World of Warcraft, etc, etc, etc.

Retired, living with a pretty constant chronic pain, so I'm usually posting under the influence of a chronic strain. (sly grin)

Sharing life with a husband, two cats, and as many of you as can put up with me.

Hoping for a shot at a key, but not fooling myself on how able to top 100 that foundation I could possibly be. Still, here until budget and bones permit me to do more than watch from the sidelines.

I missed the Kickstarter, but I'll likely pick up somewhere between Alpha 2 and Beta (if the budget is kind).

So "hello" and [wave] and [friendly noises].... buckling in for the ride!

@therippyone I suspect you did not fully read that last link, but your opinion is interesting to me in that is presumes that it is far more difficult to render real world systems in a game than reality proves it, particularly given SpatialOS.

Additionally, all the theories from economics to sociology to geolocal specific cases/history have academic research and peer-reviewed study. All of these present whatever statistically relevant (i.e., demonstrable causality) findings they're able to support.

The math exists and is validated. The science exists and is peer-reviewed. The technology now exists and, while still young, will only improve.

By way of example, this item from

and even modify variables on the fly to more accurately reflect causal relationships in real world situations.

I know all of this because I was the person who first suggested to them they should get into gaming. City modeling and government sales are great, but slow cycle and not likely to improve. Gaming, on the other hand.... (as we see, they are on it like white on rice now).

Real world systems. In real time simulations. Using real world academic, scientific, and technological data and methods.

It continues to astonish me that companies seeking to realize products that reflect realism completely ignore available academic work (now even including specifically game studies) in favor of an industry preference... dissonance, dis-confirmation bias, et al. I'm happy to see offerings like Fractured and to see Improbable recognizing and reacting to industry need that the industry isn't even willing to acknowledge exist (yet).

You are arguing from a consumer and player's perspective; heavily influenced by previous experiences, heavily bound by its own assumptions on what is and isn't preferred, and projecting that on the market. No judgment here, it's well known this is common on forums (just as the reality of forum posters being exponentially outnumbered by lurkers, and that people will assume agreement in the face of silence when, in fact, the opposite is much more often true).

What I am saying is that, of all, I hope Fractured does NOT represent old design in a new technological shell. That, instead, it provides a world in which realistic systems provide a more realistic experience. A true world simulation that just happens to be a game.

But, to the point (at last, eh?) I'm not speaking merely my opinion when I say change is needed, nor when I say it is now possible; I'm stating that tools like SpatialOS will make our offerings soooo much more interesting. They'll benefit too, of course. There are already huge swaths of industry begging for better data and insight... what better place than in a game world to model such things? (I can even see where data from SpatialOS could be actionable for the creators of Fractured well outside this endeavor.)

I want most to see this level of realism in simulation in MMO offerings.

It is highly unlikely a consumer could come up with a historical gaming scenario that has not been analyzed exhaustively in other academic or scientific contexts.

Finally, finally, finally, the game industry is beginning to realize is that there is a decided benefit (and potentially new lines of revenue) to be had in incorporating academic, scientific data in games via emerging technologies.

So, thank you for the reply, however guileful in derision and dismissal. It remains that I see nothing in your response that in any way negates the work linked... certainly not that effectively rebuts my statements.

/tips hat

@Rofus - I hear you and thank you for the encouragement, but the days when I streamed, had an audience, and a little influence are behind me. Maybe I'll make it on forum presence, but that's not likely until I have something worth saying (i.e., if I'm not testing, how can that be?).

Regardless, thank you to everyone for such a warm welcome.

@Gibbx - I can only hope.

@roccandil said in Pinatas, catatonia, and Montgomery Scott (or what matters the most to me in MMOs):

@ekadzati said in Pinatas, catatonia, and Montgomery Scott (or what matters the most to me in MMOs):

A given collective of players should be able to encode their cultural rules upon the land(s) they manage, and be able to do so in such in a way that assures technology handle the heavy lifting.

Providing the options of different models is the only requisite. How they are used will be the emergent aspect.

Maybe players prefer to follow real world examples, maybe they don't... but it's a lot easier to do any of it if the game itself provides a means of formalizing such things.

I like Fractured's take on planetary cultures; I'm saying with the right systems in place, you wouldn't need separate planets.

So, you'd like to see, say (just for example), a guild alliance structure available to demons on Tartaros? Something that would penalize breaking the alliance or attacking allies (or maybe prevent attacks on allies entirely).

(From a lore perspective, could be a blood oath/magic thing that not even demons ignore lightly.)

@dragomok said in Pinatas, catatonia, and Montgomery Scott (or what matters the most to me in MMOs):

...but then again, even rudimentary modelling ecology leads to mob in-fighting, and OOOHH YES, mob in-fighting can be fun. Firefall beta didn't have a full-blown ecology, but it had mob factions. I liked to herd swarms of Hissers onto Brontodons, and my favourite memory is of a (brief) five-sided players-Raiders-Chosen-Brontodons-wildlife battle that I accidentally started.

That sounds cool. I'd love to see more ecological systems implemented!

Yes to both, actually. Any "agreement" that is possible between players should be able to be formalized (there will always be compelling reasons NOT to do so, but one's reputation over time somewhat implies there is more than anecdotal and highly biased history to refer to... even as there will always be argument around "whose perspective is accurate/correct/factual" - there will be more depth when there is more information and access TO it for players.)

Players never consider the health of the surrounding systems. I think they should. I'd like to, personally, and I think it would give mobs as well as players reasons to regularly check their premise and adjust as needed (i.e., rather than sink into rote behaviors, min-maxing/theorycraft, and "gaming the system").

Anyway, I am about to be on the road a bit, so likely will be sparse on replies unless insomnia visits again. Thanks for the discussion.... very interesting and enjoyable!

Not at all concerned, really. They are less than 10 people pulling off something that I've seen studios of over 200 not manage as well in an early alpha test cycle.

The real shame would be if some tempest in a teacup spun up and randomized them from what has already got to be a crunchy schedule.

Please make a point of viewing things available and reading through released developer diaries and updates. I think you'll agree with me afterward that it's much more about prioritizing their time for maximum output than maximum communication.

(That said, they probably need to get someone for those communications soon because we all know a hype train left unsatisfied quickly turns into a mess.)

#JustMyTwoCents
#IgnoreAtWill

EASK here, but I prefer the more narrowly defined 'motivation' profile I got for free here: https://apps.quanticfoundry.com/surveys/start/gamerprofile/

Mine are: https://quantic.page.link/XF9i1LQ6XyAbdjx28

I hear you. Nheedra (bears) is the plan here. Have a loose guild concept that I'll be building out further once lore is available (may be a while). Until then, testing and trying my best to break things so they don't make it to the live game.

Bigtime PvE, craft, trade, and sometimes (looking around and whispering)... roleplay.

Relevant link: https://fracturedmmo.com/guild-profile/id/4376/

The Yo-Na Commune is a loose association of beastfolk seeking a peaceful mercantile and/or farming experience. Depending upon interest over time, we may grow into a town but our focus is more on shared progress within a larger community than a competitive or exclusionary one.

Husband/Wife founders intend to develop a democratic community within which direction and authority are shared in parity with those who provide the organization and infrastructure to make "fun" for others.

Further direction to be defined as membership and time yields interest. Questions welcome.

@therippyone said in Pinatas, catatonia, and Montgomery Scott (or what matters the most to me in MMOs):

@ekadzati Okay, first of all, you are entirely correct about me not fully reading the last link - mainly because I missed it entirely. What I get for doing this after work and half asleep. I'll respond more cogently in a bit, once I finish up the latest posted articles from you - but I felt the need, for the sake of honestly, to admit my mistake.

@therippyone No worries. Also, for the record, I'm not looking for an argument. I posted initially in response to the question and then, in response to your seemingly dismissive response. I likely will not continue this particular discussion as it seems well established already the we are not likely to find common ground. That said, I would be happy to be proven wrong.... off to my day now, but I'll check in over the next days. Hope your weekend goes well!

Late edit to add - actually, here's a really good overview for the time spent, and it happens to be the GDC 2017 presentation on precisely how/why they're in the industry. I think you'll like what you see.

Much obliged!

@Roccandil said in May 2020 Open Playtest:

@Specter said in May 2020 Open Playtest:

@Althalus From what I've heard it's a possibility but it very much depends on what the Beastmen players want. It's something I've discussed in private with Prometheus.

I'd much prefer a unique PvE content option for the Beastmen. Maybe a dangerous "corruption hunt", or something else in character. (The evil influences of Tartaros must be continually kept at bay!)

And I could see some kind of super-PvP option for Tartaros, just to keep the theme going.

Death Race 2020: A conglomeration of demons begin at location X and must make it to location Y without dying.
You die, you're out.
First 10 players to make it to Y ..... what?

Fox & Hounds - Coursing
Dev demon is designated 'fox' and demon players are the hounds.
First one to deliver [dropped loot item, unique] to location Y.... what?

So many ideas. >:)

They recently dropped their GDC 2018 reel and, well, you tell me what you see.... (grin)

(Note: They have an SDK for unity as well.)

But, personally,

is my favorite because it elegantly demonstrates the ability to create and iterate holistic systems in organic and surprisingly emergent ways.

@dragomok said in Weary MMO traveler seeks home...:

It's always an honor to meet a veteran of one's hobby. Welcome!

Is there any single feature of Fractured that stands out for you?

At the moment, the idea of having a home in the game world, being able to be the loner that I am, but also being loosely affiliated with houses that wish barter, trade, and related services.

Still, here until budget and bones permit me to do more than watch from the sidelines.

That's a relatable sentence, although in my case it's lack of time, not lack of well-mannered bones.

The only reason my bones get away with it is that I can't yoink them out for a lesson on manners without making things worse. Heh.

@jairone said in Pinatas, catatonia, and Montgomery Scott (or what matters the most to me in MMOs):

@ekadzati @TheRippyOne
You both have very good points about PvP, PvE, and the mixture of the two. I believe one of the biggest gulfs to many people with PvP is the effective comparison of what one is facing, which is a continual assault that ends only if the other player chooses to give up. Even when winning, some people get tired of the infinitely respawning assault.

Where this matters is that most games have had really minimal needs for players, and an economy which either has minimal repair costs aligned to this or which is easy to the point of having hundreds of weapons for such an assault being made in a short time.

Given the choice, many people would rather just avoid the trash-talk, the constant attacks, and the complete lack of any rules which hinder those who want to run such attacks (war-declarations overcoming all the shortcomings in many games, where alt-guilds that are homeless and get supplies from guilds with resources are used to attack everyone and anyone via war-decs on everyone such that they do not face some of the negatives of ganking, for example.)

It's something I hear a lot. Some PvP players want no rules. They constantly push it. That lack of rules is the complete antithesis of a human society. Any such society would have some rules. So for demons, that might make some sense... but in general it turns most people off. The reason why is because they recognize that the people who want to harass others that way have every advantage.

I won't insult people's play preferences, I'm just talking about why it turns people away. It is something I have long felt was going to eventually come to a head in the games industry, as developers look at population counts. I'm of the opinion that variety is king (and games devs need to stop chasing success) but... that also means that both PvE and PvP need to deal with the growing pains they have actively avoided for so long. PvE especially is a tricky subject when combined with PvP. People know all too well that any ability to be a jerk will be used by somebody (even something so simple to avoid as big graphics in the way of something in games). Thus PvP in any PvE gets a huge red flag warning by many. I do believe that rules could mitigate that, but there will always be some who just won't want to deal with it at all.

It is entirely a problem of failing to fully/truly model the system in question so that the types of collective enforcement and interest can even exist.

People think about games from the perspective of "what I like" and "what I dislike" - they chase what they like, avoid what they dislike and, in our real world, look at all the variety that results!

Technology (until now) has never been able to accurately reflect the many, layered simplicities that form all complexity. And companies are loathe spend a single penny that does not have expectation of a return attached to it. So, as you might imagine (and as many have experienced), games have always lacked the ability to deliver on the variables that make collective society and subgrouping of cultures possible.

I believe that is going to fundamentally change now that offerings like SpatialOS are in the mix.

The best part is, unless the industry rejects this opportunity wholesale (which won't be known for a few years yet), it can only get BETTER for game developers, publishers, and of course, players.

It's a great time to be a gamer, here, on the forefront of the next generation (finally!).

@BlueGoblin said in Finally - a backer.:

Awesome and welcome, my wife and I are also going to be Beastmen and looking forward to the adventures! If you find or start a beast guild/community, drop a note!

I have and we will: Yo-na Commune

More on that in an "official" announce in the right forum soon.

@Salamanderham said in What is the main reason why you want to play Fractured?:

I game that lets me play the way I want. I backed this because it gives me options.

Absolutely. This.

Welcome. I'm new (yesterday) backing as well, so you're not alone! Have fun!!

@Cabby I believe it says immediately under that "quest" that it is a placeholder quest and not actually intended for "the tutorial".

Personally, I took that to mean "Alpha caveat - we don't have the content for this part yet, so we're giving you some places to check out while we continue cranking code".... but I can see how it might be mistaken for a final state item.

I went to Heartwood, promptly got my hiney handed to me by a wisp, and forsook my corpse for inability to get it without further death/loss. (Solo player because forcusing on NPE.)

I went to goblins and worked up my knowledge on them and the wolves nearby for that sweet bleed attack. And materials.

Then, back to town for hide armor (Oh yeahhhhh) and then back to the gobbies for small grind fest to afford buying land so I can experience the transition out of NPE (when the Nheedra are available).

For now, I'm actually focusing on trying to break the NPE quests through a variety of 'misuse cases'. So far, remarkably tight.... but there is an issue with dupes that I'm trying to recreate, so eh....

Anyway... I appreciate seeing the perspective of other players and you really did a good job of outlining your view. Great read and thank you for that.