Posts made by GamerSeuss

The way the market (individualized) is supposed to work is 2-fold. 1, it creates localized markets of specific local products easily found in the area...doesn't sell to the locals, but visitors might buy it up rather than gather/process it themselves to transport elsewhere. 2. It creates a reason for enterprising merchants to gather the local resources, travel to a far away market, and list their goods there at an inflated price. They have taken the transport time and risk, and now, in an area that has No Iron let's say, they put up a wagon-load of iron (30 pieces) at 5x the price they could get at home, or 10, or more...and they sell out as fast as they can bring loads in.

This is how the Devs want the economy to work, in fact, this is how they advertised it from the beginning. No 'global economy' but individual merchants having to physically move stuff from place to place to stimulate the economic growth in an area.

This encourages big guilds to mine ore, and fill their inventory with items locally available, gather a few warriors/mages, and caravan across the continent together, killing mobs and PvPers alike as they protect their investment.

@dracokalen You know, I filled up my marketplace initially too, and with mostly the stuff I used to get my mastery, so nothing special, and yes, it 'wasn't' selling. Or not that much, here and there, then it stopped

Now that the taxes have been added, and I adjusted my prices to compensate for the tax cost (plus I dumped anything of Normal Quality or less) I am selling 2 or 3 pieces every day. Am I making a mint, NO, but I'm at least making my taxes+base back, and a little bit for materials.

As for big groups over individuals and money making, it is partly a matter of where you hunt. I know, as much as I love hunting with my GF and Sister for instance, when we come together to hunt in the Storm elemental area, we make about 2k per hour, when me and Storm break up and individually hunt the elementals, each pick an island and run it, it goes to about 4k per hour, so more isn't always going to be the case.

@dracokalen Gold is 'starting' to gain value, but they still don't have enough gold sinks in the game yet, and they haven't got everything else balanced out right, right now...but they are improving.

You keep missing the point yourself, @dracokalen especially casual crafters aren't going to want to craft in a vacuum. Especially if they aren't crafting for personal use, at some point they are in fact going to want to be able to sell their crafted goods, and if gold remains without a valuation scale, it IS in fact the casual crafting player that will get screwed. The establishment of gold sinks, especially those tied directly into crafting, will help develop a valuation scale of both the gold itself, and the crafts that come from that gold. Next, the market stabilizes, as crafting costs, both base and taxes, get rolled into the cost of equiipment crafted and then sold on the market, across the board. The point is, it is really early in the game's lifecycle (in fact, it is pre-lifecycle, as we're only Beta-testing, as we find that balance). Once the game gets the balances worked out, the gold sinks established, all the craftings implemented, and they work out exactly how Mastery and Recipes/Higher Level/tier crafting should work, as well as things like Caravans, PvP, etc... then everyone will have a more robust experience in the game. Crafters will get to craft, AND be able to sell their goods at a reasonable price in the marketplace, or sell their services to a group or guild as crafting quartermasters, and the system will be able to work harmoniously. Right now, you're just not feeling the affects yet.

I'm personally opposed to limited use Recipes.

I agree with many of your other points, however.

Limited use recipes aren't thematically viable, and really the whole recipe system is out of character for what FO looting schemes are. Bears would not carry Recipes to be looted, nor would Giant Spiders, for instance.

Durability does need adjusting, for sure.
Recipes access should be tied into craft mastery or be in its own talent tree. ..mayhap thru a Library or Research Bldg

@spoletta Exactly

For a Player Driven Economy, which is by far one of the MAIN design goals of FO, you have to make the Currency Standard have a valuation. This means proper, and diverse gold sinks. If your crafters, dedicated or casual, want to be able to sell their items in the market at a sufficient 'actual' profit to do something with in the game, the currency needs to stabilize. Putting in gold sinks like the standard base costs to craft items, as well as allowing the town to add in taxes for using town based work stations is one way they do this. Another is house rental costs for upkeep. A third is Harbor Fees. Possible additional costs will include Research costs in the future, Siege costs, etc...

You need sufficient gold sinks to balance out gold, no matter what you set the gold drop rate at...because without gold sinks, even a dirt low drop rate will eventually mean an overabundance of gold, and a general devaluation of it as a currency.

Sure, there is the Bartar system, but that doesn't work as a full economy, only as a community support subsystem, that is much easier to cheat newbies with than the market.

@Eldriken Actually, Copper only requires 2 coal per ingot made, not 4, so you can actually do what your saying with only 8 coal and 20 copper ore (so less than 1 wagon load, all total)

If your using Charcoal, I think it takes 4, but coal burns hotter.

The point is, while said smelters (which take about 45 mins to fill if resources are near and not played out,) will now take 4 hours to process...during that time, you could go offline, or go grind out some gold and gather other resources at the same time. Like @spoletta said, my 2000 in an hour estimate is on the low side, once you find good gold mobs to farm, but shoot, just hitting the coast for Sea Trolls, you can make the 2K relatively safely, soloing. That's melee or ranged, not sure on cutthroat or archer builds, and that's just using the starter skills plus the 1 you pick up in the tutorial.

As I said, in the Shock Elemental area of Aehren, I make around 4k an hour, and generally can net a recipe every hour or 2 to add to that, plus various levels of topaz, magnetic gravel, and the very common Storm Essence and Primordial Dust that almost every one of the elementals drop. Again, that's solo'ing with my mage, my sister solo's the next island over (with her melee) and nets about the same, with mayhaps a slightly lower recipe drop rate (they don't seem to like to drop for her as much)

So, what you can do is fill your smelter (45 mins-ish) and either log off, or now transport to Aehren with minimal gear near the Shock Elementals via the Harbor (about 4-600 gold) Grind gold for 4 hours, netting about 15-16,000 gold, transport back to Myr, fully loaded for about 3,000 gold (more or less, depending on carry capacity) and you've netted say 12k in gold for that one trip, played for less than 5 hours total, got your 4 ingots made, got your rent, and got about 10k to spend on crafting stuff as well, plus you've got some reagents, a few of which might even sell off at the market decently, and you can probably sell/learn the recipes you've picked up as well for a little extra capital. Even if that's all you play in the whole week, you've covered yourself, and the next couple weeks you can just craft if you want in the same time, until your run out of funds/materials, then repeat the process...you keep your house, you fill your smelter, and your only using about 5 hrs a week to maintain.

A light, casual player can grind out the 2000 needed for rent in less than 2 hours, depending on where they hunt...if they get a good spot, you can actually net closer 4000 an hour (that's what I make at the Storm Elementals on Aehren, not counting Recipes)

So, if every week, you devote a mere 2 hrs of play to making money, you've got your rent covered, and again, that's casual. Another couple hours for crafting gold, and you've still only played 4 hours in a week's time. Most casual players tend to do 1 to 2 sessions ranging from anywhere around an hour to more than 8 per session, with possible longer sessions, but fewer sessions per week being the thing. A more regular player gets in sessions every day to every other day, and those range from about 2 hours to again, upwards of 8 hrs or so, and the dedicated gamer plays every day, or like 3 to 4 solid days of 6+ hrs at a time, generally at least 20+ hrs a week.

So, unless your a super casual player (under 2 to 3 hrs a week) in which case, your probably not going to be owning a house, or being a heavy crafter anyway, you shouldn't have any problems. The more casual your time frames, the less you can expect to turn a profit, which is just reality. In the real world, you gotta spend money to make money, in the gaming world, you gotta spend game time to make money/crafting.

Let's face it, if your playing less than 10 hrs total in a given week, ,one could hardly call you a heavy crafter...and in general, you probably aren't in heavy need of your own home to craft in. With those kinds of limitations, your not even going to really be handling the time sinks for things like metal ingots and leather for the most part, afterall.

it's working now, after a couple reboots

As topic states, when I try to use my Physical Recovery spell on my allies/self, no healing is happening. I don't know about the status affects, but it is not healing right now.

We are currently on Aehren, in the Storm Elemental zone.

@TheBodo The base fee represents things like upkeep on the crafting station, individualized supplies that the game hasn't bothered to detail, like resins, dyes, high and low grit sandpaper, oil/grease, dusting, cleanup, etc... All the costs that would be involved with continuous use of a crafting station beyond just building it.

This is an important Gold Sink for the game, allowing Gold to establish a valuation and not become so overabundant that it has no real meaning. Previously, gold was so undervalued because of its commonality that all prices in the market were way inflated, and only going up, as gold became more and more overstockpiled. Finally, gold is being sinked by more than straight town/house upkeep and harbors, making the amount of gold available overall in world more managable, and the economy of the markets will stabilize because of this, and other steps that will be taken...the balance just has to be found.

unless mayhaps, Vice-Governors/Govs don't have to pay additional taxes...if you can set the tax rate, you may be exempt
Everyone, on the other hand, pays the base fee, base fee goes to the game, not the town.

@BECKFAST The problem with a lot of your suggestions is they go totally against what FO is all about.

The game wants cities to be based on more than just gold...and farming is a big and well anticipated part of that system.
Same with time sink things like tanning tubs and smelters. Higher tier gear is locked behind a few things, time sinks, and extra component requirements, and now recipes..;although many of us disagree with recipes, for the most part, the only thing about tanning tubs/smelters that has really been in doubt is how long their timesinks are, and how balanced it is compared to like mage armor type selections. Rather than removing tanning tubs/smelters time sink elements, they need to add a time sink to cloth level armors, even if it isn't exactly as long as leather or metal.

@dracokalen That's why I have a feeling with some minerals, it is going to be intentional, making people actually have to mine some nodes, or look for telltale identifiers to find certain minerals.

If it is intentional, I like it, I know some people want everything to be tooltipped out the wazoo, but me, personally, I'm all for less tool tips and more trial and error. That being said, once you have unlocked knowledge, or at least gotten 100% on sometime (if they every do percentages of resources) then they could add the tooltip. I know tooltips on monster mobs would be distracting during combat.

@dracokalen and I believe they have been that way since previous Alphas when Tin was introduced

@spoletta Exactly!

Also, this is newly implemented, so the effect is not being realized yet. As it trickles down through everyone's consciousness, market listings will start to automatically include trying to recoup your tax burden, for finished goods, and raw material prices will go down, as they don't have to be processed, just gathered.

There will be a whole cottage industry of gatherers, not crafting, not really fighting, just going out, gathering, grinding easy mobs, and supplying the market with different reagents from around the continents.

Okay, so here's the situation as completely as I can relate it:

When I open the client and click on any of the 3 characters I have that are located in Myr, it goes to the Connecting to Server screen, then after a moment, returns to the character select screen.

When I try to log in with the only character I have on Aehren, after a moment, it goes to loading world, and I arrive in Zenith with my character intact.

I have checked with at least one other, my sister Stormbug, and she says that the same thing is going on with a lot of people. Nobody seems to be able to access Myr. I assume your probably updating Myr or something, but thought I would report this, as I didn't see a report previously.

@LordSkykal @Arcahem

actually, to clarify: I intentionally respond with this kind of information, and I have the ability to do so, because I am a game developer, and teach game design.

Developers won't say generally how hard/easy something will be to implement, because for them to do so will be written off as an excuse, but by me, not one of their developers, pointing out when things are harder/easier to implement, I am informing others who may not know the ins and outs of programming, what parts of things are harder/easier to implement, thus granting some empathy and understanding for the developers, without the developers having to come in and do so (where it just gets written off as them making excuses)

1. Show some empathy
2. Realize if you don't need the information in someone's response, that doesn't mean someone else doesn't
3. I am not dismissing anything by what I say, because A> I'm not the Developers, and B> I'm not saying something cannot be done, or even that it shouldn't, I am merely informing about the logistics of it.
4. Just like anyone else on the forums, I have the right to express my opinions, respectfully, and I do so, and my opinion can go as far as my opinion on how easy/difficult something may be to implement, EVEN if I wasn't a game developer/programmer myself.

Regardless, that is off topic, so I'm done with defending my posting. As long as I am respectful, I feel I can keep replying as I see fit, just like everyone else (many of which can devolve into name-calling and other disrespectful behavior, mind you) The Devs need to know that their efforts are appreciated, and that some people weigh the various efforts involved when commenting.

this, plus Tin deposits would look like normal stone deposits until you extract the ore...If you are in the Tin area, it's a try it and see thing, don't think it's a bug.

No matter what you set the Tax to, you still pay the 'Base Fee'

so, if you have tax set to 0, your base fee you pay is 400 for that item, then it cost 400 total.

However, if your tax is set to the lowest non-zero setting, that equates to 25%, so if base is 400, you pay 500

You only pay 0 crafting when you make it from inventory (primitive items only, like rope, bandages, primitive weapons, remedies, etc...)

Since anyone can generally grind out 1000 gold easily in about an hour, the costs here aren't that high at all. If anything, the game needed more gold-sinks as it is, or gold would be too economy breaking with inflation caused by gold glut.

The game NEEDED gold sinks...so now all crafting takes gold to do...except primitive from inventory, that is...that is improvising. Anything else, it is assumed your paying for various little things, like upkeep on the crafting stations, resins, dyes, high and low grit sandpaper, oil, etc... used in crafting that they didn't want to individualize...On top of that, if you use a town station, you pay an additional tax...makes sense.

I'm a crafting heavy player, and I find this perfectly reasonable. Once the game gets really going, crafters will be able to reflect their costs back into the price of their finished goods...in fact, if people are smart, they would immediately go to their old market listings and adjust all their prices to reflect the additional costs...if we all do it, then the pricehike will be uniform, and should stabilize the economic impact overall.