Posts made by Gothix

@target said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

@gothix said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

MMO where people read web, search cookie cutter builds, and change them as they wish. You have a zerg of clones of players running around all wielding same stuff.
I certainly do not want that, and permanent attribute points is one thing that will prevent this.

Can you explain your logic behind this? People are just going to look up the meta builds before they make their characters instead of trying to figure out the game on their own when experimentation is so harshly punished. And it's not like the burden of creating a meta build is high; you just need a handful of skills and then level them up which might take a week at most with a brand new character. Having permanent stats isn't going to prevent cookie cutter builds at all.

It will prevent respecing to them at a later point in game life, because people can only "copy starting builds / sets", and roll their characters based on currently known cookie cutter builds (which is by the way 0 at game launch, and will remain 0 for a long time till people get more knowledge and experience), but over time new builds will get discovered (or become available by new skill additions to game, or balancing patches). Reaching all 400 skills will take major amount of time, and by the time people will have many skills unlocked, and then they figure out some new build to respec to, they will not wish to reroll anymore, because they would lose all the knowledge gained then. This is why at that point there will be no more "changing to a meta build" (instead people will roll an alt to play other type of character, as they should).

On the other hand if you allow changing of attribute points, then people will keep changing them even when they are filled up with 400 skills, every time when they want to switch from playing a "mage" to playing a "warrior" or whatever. They will be able to copy anyone, at any time, even in late point in game.

This is what I would like to avoid.

@Roccandil by your logic, then you should fill every wish that players have, or else you will have unhappy player base which is bad for business...

And if that's the case, then I definitely will not wish to play that game, because it will be designed to fit the gaming preferences of an average Joe (because an average Joe is the majority of player population). It will be a mediocre game with very little challenge.

I am looking for a game that is built to be difficult, and then players strive to reach their goals, but not all goals are designed to get reached, some should never be reached, they should be there for players to keep trying, and striving.

I want game to put limits on players, some sense of permanency, some limits on your character that makes your character unique, and not to be able to get copied by everyone out there who will "respec to become you" at a moments notice.

I want a game that will not go ahead and fill up every average Joes wish...
...If I wanted that, I would stick with WOW.

Soon TM

@roccandil said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

repetition != challenge

But the error in your thinking is the following. Game is not designed for you to redo character creation over and over if you are not happy (this is your own choice if you chose to do so).

Game is (or it should be) designed for you to create your character as existing person with inherited predefined personality and attributes, and the challenge is for you to accept those attributes, and then go through the world, learning, and trying to fit in, exploiting your attribute strong sides and affecting the world around you like that, working around your flaws and exploiting your strengths.

Players should be happy they can chose their attributes, rather than getting them randomly (I wonder what you would say then). And if you want a different character, there are several alt slots you can get.

If anyone is not happy with his attributes, he is free to create an alt, or redo the original character, but this should be on him. The game shouldn't get changed because he thinks he should get to redo his attributes like he wishes, when he wishes so.

There are many players (me included) that like the sound of permanent unchangeable attributes.

This means people can not change their attributes on a mood change, or when next cookie cutter build comes along.

It gives value and uniqueness to your character because if you have a certain attribute set, and a lots of knowledge, and you are successful, you know that tomorrow a thousand people can't just change their attribute set to clone you (keeping their current filled up knowledge and skills) and "becoming you".

If people get to change their attributes, Fractured becomes just one more mainstream MMO where people read web, search cookie cutter builds, and change them as they wish. You have a zerg of clones of players running around all wielding same stuff.

I certainly do not want that, and permanent attribute points is one thing that will prevent this. That is one thing i loved about Fractured when I read about this. If attributes will be changeable, Fractured just drops a huge deal in my eyes, and if more things in game get changed along like that whenever players desire so and ask for it, I already see what the game will become, and my wish to play it will just get extinguished.

This is why my attitude is like this. Stuff like this will make or break the game for me. I'm tired of MMOs getting fit to vocal players that demand things because they think things should be in certain way they would like. And game just gets ruined more and more whenever there is an outbreak of player demands in forums.

And this is happening right now, players have already started crying about not being able to change attributes after initial setup.

They cry about setting them wrong, not being able to change them if they want to change build, etc.

Devs have said that attributes will remain a permanent feature, like in classic RPG games, and they only said that there might be a possibility to change them later on, due to knowing that players will cry (and we see this crying confirmed here).

I would like devs to say to players: "attributes are permanent, deal with it." "Accept this as a challenge."

But I know part of players will continue crying until they get what they want. Now it just remains to be seen if this company will be the same as all other companies and will succumb to crying players demands, or will they make the statement and say "this is the game as we designed it, accept the challenges and limitations and work around them, show your skill".

Let's see, although I suspect it will be like in any other MMOs, and things will get nerfed over time, because part of players will continue crying.

@roccandil said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

I see this attitude a lot, and don't understand it. Customer service matters, and a good business exists to serve the customer, not the other way around.

Yes, but not to serve a particular customer (or part of customers) in such way that screws up other part of customers.

Good company serves ALL the players, and not just part of players that cry about things.

By serving those that cry (by nerfing stuff), company effectively screws up all the rest of players that want to play somewhat challenging game.

And yet every company, one after another, keep listening to crying players on forums and then continually nerf things in game, giving those crying players protections, instant gratifications, etc.

In this way, players that want to have a challenging game get screwed up over and over, and thus I consider all companies that do this (listen to crying players demands) an utter shit companies.

For once I would like some company not to care about players crying. To see devs just let people cry and then laugh at them for sucking at gaming.

This company would win my heart instantly.

I guess I'd be ok with devs letting people shift 1 attribute point per month, and make it cost a lots of resources.

I'm definitely not ok with people being able to respec a whole attribute set at any time new cookie cutter build comes around.

@gofrit said in Future Plans for new races and/or planets?:

What i don't understand is :

• why you want new races... We never played one yet...
• why you want new planet... We never walked on yet...

We don't want those now.

We want Fractured to have some long term plans about future content updates, so it doesn't just die out. Those new planets and races are some of possible nice big content updates.

I kinda like the permanency. You are born in certain way, and then you live and build around it.

People do not just get to reroll attributes whenever next "cookie cutter" build comes around.

@dybuk said in Switching Characters:

@gothix said in Switching Characters:

All players should be "forced to" PvX if they want to max out their possibilities.
Players that only do PvP or that only do PvE should be at disadvantage compared to players that do full PvX.
What you wanna do is your choice, but player that "does" more than you should "have" more than you (in all aspects)

Remember about Beastmen - in their case PvP will be vey small part of the world if present at all...

Beastmen have an option to travel to Syndesia and to Tartaros to PvP, that's more than enough, and if that's not enough for them, they have an option to play another race.

Everyone has a choice. And if you make a choice to not do something, that's on you. You should have the consequences of your choice.

Also remember, Beastmen will have a possibility to do more (easyer) PvE than other races as well, and then travel to other planets to PvP. Demons can't do that.

So, everything I wrote stands. Beastmen are even in advantage due to their protections.

@Roccandil you are correct.

In any MMO you start off with less knowledge, and then over time you become more experienced. Attributes however will be theory crafted by many players before the game starts and, depending on role you wish to play, just pick out one already theory crafted attribute set and go with it.

After you played for a while, and you will wish another character with another main role, just create an alt and get another attribute set (either pick it up from someone else again, or create your own now if you feel experienced enough).

And if you go and create your own character on your own, without any experience, and screw up, they yes, if bad attribute distribution bothers you, you will just have to deal with it and re roll.

@tulukaruk said in Switching Characters:

Prometheus once said that the difference between r2 and r3 won't be too much but in other place he said that once guy should be able to kill 4... so we'll see

Well on it's own, just one spell r2 vs r3 will not be a game changer... but all skills in your bar r3, vs having all of them r2 or r1, it will add up. Together with other factors, that will also add up bit by bit, a veteran player will gain a certain advantage over fresh player.

Fractured will be good because this advantage will likely not be too large, and fresh player can make up for it with his skill. That's the point.

However, 2 players having equal skill.. veteran player will have certain advantage over fresh player, and that's cool.

Played WoW for a very long time.

Was never a fan of fast "DoTa" style games. "Rushing around" was never so attractive to me when RPG games are in question. The only fast games that I like to be fast are FPS games.

@jahlon said in PETS!:

But I only got a say in their Chinese food names.

The married life

Wimp life.

MMOs usually start off with normal, decent cosmetics, and then when standard cosmetics sales drop, they start introducing silly stuff to pull some more money out off those that will pay for that.

Sadly MMOs are a business and it will always be about money first and foremost, regardless of what any company claims (to boost their PR).

Long gone are the days when enthusiast coders created the games, with game quality and player enjoyment as first primary objective. We can always hope someone will introduce something like that again (without caring about money as primary objective) but chances for that are slim to none. At least when large games are in question.

Shadow demons can climb stealthy over the walls and open the gates from inside.

As long as we don't get horse head masks, I'm good.

@benseine said in Infinite progression or hit the wall progression?:

@rockarmy no, the same town conquests / sieges are on Tartaros. No Pvp sieges on Arboreus, but maybe something else can be a substitutie there. Some Pve content.

Arboreus = politics /subterfuge / sabotage / elections / PvE contests / plenty of other possibilities

@jetah said in Switching Characters:

@gothix
Expecting ahorizontal power growth, it’s possible that rank two and rank three will only grant 1% power each or the difference between rank 1 and 3 can be 1%. Then again ranks do not have to grant power they can grant utility.

But extra utility still means an extra advantage. A spell doesn't have to deal more raw damage to be more powerful. Extra CC duration, harder slow effect, lower mana cost, whatever,... still makes r3 spell more advantageous then r1 spell, and player equipped with r3 spell assortment will beat a player equipped with r1 spell assortment (assuming their skill/gear/circumstances are equal).