Posts made by Miffi

@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.

We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.

i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!

In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.

That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.

In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.

Of course it does. Your intension is to gank. You are going out of your way to find beastkin. If what you wanted to do was pvp yu would kill other demons. But you're not, you are actively pursuing those who dont want to. Thats my point, you are still forcing people who dont want anything to do with pvp to pvp.

pvp is pvp it doesn't matter if it's beast, human or demon. both intention is to fight against another player. why would a person play a game where they can be in a situation to pvp if they hate it? I genuinely don't understand the philosophy behind it.

Because they are playing to play the PvE portion of the game? You make it sound like thats not the point. And exactly, its all the same so fight humans and demons as they WANT to PvP, leave those who dont alone.
Esher has the right idea, hes not playing to be scummy and bully.

@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.

We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.

i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!

In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.

That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.

In a pvp game, ganking doesn't exist. if you're a beastkin and youre in the area where demons can invade then expect to be killed. that isn't being ganked.

Of course it does. Your intension is to gank. You are going out of your way to find beastkin. If what you wanted to do was pvp yu would kill other demons. But you're not, you are actively pursuing those who dont want to. Thats my point, you are still forcing people who dont want anything to do with pvp to pvp.

@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.

We don't know to what extent the pvp on the beast world will be. demons could be so debuffed it would be stupid to go there.

i don't see the difference between pvp and gank. even in a battleground or arena people are going to be killed. you play this game knowing you're going to be stalked and an attempt will be made on your life. or the demons have a 500 player raid!

In an arena you have opted in for it, you queued up. Thats what you want to do. A gank is your minding your own business and someone wants to kill you when you had no intension or desire to fight. They are wildly different.

That still doesnt change what I stated as being the point. You are forcing pvp on them. Thats the problem.

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@finland said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

@phaethonas said in Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:

Fractured has a planet solely for pve? Tell that to the demon horde when it invades that planet and starts killing and pillaging

So once there will be no more beasts what do you plan to do? Move to another game?

Look's like that the main purpose is killing beasts (pvers). You can fight humans and demons too. But pkers/gankers like you never mention them. I really hope that devs will keep an eye on your kind of considerations.

My main purpose is not to kill pvers. And the moment pvers leave (if that happens, which I doubt), then I will be killing pvpers.

What I did say was that if you chose to be a beastkin, don't expect to leave peacefully ever after. The game has the concept of demon invasions.

As to my preferences? They are not that important as long as I accept the game for what it is. To your own words, you want to force changes to the game.

I think the problem most pve'rs have is that you want to force pvp on them. Its your going out of your way for targeting those who want no part of it. I personally dont mind, I like pvp. No so much grieving, ganking and just being scummy but pvp im down for. But a lot of those going beastkin are doing so to avoid people like you unfortunately. The idea is this, you want to pvp? Thats fine, go ahead and do so with the others who want to also. But dont force those who dont to do so. Thats why they are condemning that playstyle because its a bully mentality.

I can see where @33Hp is coming from. What @Darian stated might work, not exactly full on debuffs but quirks to a person with high values? Some might even be considered good, they dont all have to be bad.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@miffi said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

No its not? A bounty system is to hunt down and kill them. The threat just comes with the territory. When the police place a warrant for someone, its not to threaten them, its to capture them and bring punishment.

but we have a justice system with huge penalties with killing. Games don't have that. If a player character was a hardcore character and death was permanent then I'd agree with you.

Even if the bounty system was setup so that the person had to be captured and tried then a friend could still do that. The prize could still be split.

If the bounty was unknown or certain specialization existed to see or uncover the bounty, it could work. example: you place a bounty on me. I never know it. I can't find out I have a bounty.

Could maybe work with the mechanic not being public but still seems pointless if you can just get a friend to kill you. Makes no sense and renders the bounty board useless. It might be better if when the bounty is placed only one person can claim the post and it is then nearly impossible for a friend to take the money. It could also be a personal 1 to 1 contract transaction instead of a board.

No its not? A bounty system is to hunt down and kill them. The threat just comes with the territory. When the police place a warrant for someone, its not to threaten them, its to capture them and bring punishment.

@jetah because there is no punishment on the player who had the bounty on them. That circumvents the whole purpose.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@evolgrinz

doesn't sound like an exploit to me...

LOL, thats exactly what an exploit is.. the point of a bounty system is a punishment system. There is no punishment there lol.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@miffi

easier to roll an alt for small spy games. besides that person was paid! to seek revenge they happened upon a corporation with billions in assets.

but there is no frame for 'small spy games' when it could just be a big spy game with just switching to an alt. There was no effort there.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@miffi said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@finland

Eve Online has no problem with spys, Fractured shouldn't also. Who's to say people aren't using skype, discord, etc to relay info anyways. Espionage is apart of war and full loot pvp is war. War has tactics, spies are tactics.

I agree but it shouldnt be as easy as switching character. Thats just a bunch of ballocks lol. Real spies have to work at it, it takes time and effort, as it should especially if you want to do something as big as bring down a guild or faction. Being able to do it with such ease ruins the whole idea behind it.

https://www.pcgamer.com/murder-incorporated-ten-months-of-deception-for-one-kill-in-eve-online/

Exactly. 10 months. They used their main characters, no alts to 'spy'. They gained their trust and where at THEIR level. Thats exactly what im saying, you want to spy on beastkin being a demon? Gain their trust by becoming redeemed.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@finland

Eve Online has no problem with spys, Fractured shouldn't also. Who's to say people aren't using skype, discord, etc to relay info anyways. Espionage is apart of war and full loot pvp is war. War has tactics, spies are tactics.

I agree but it shouldnt be as easy as switching character. Thats just a bunch of ballocks lol. Real spies have to work at it, it takes time and effort, as it should especially if you want to do something as big as bring down a guild or faction. Being able to do it with such ease ruins the whole idea behind it.

@specter said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@miffi Your account isn't locked to one race. It's possible to have characters of different races on one account.

Ah, I see. Personally don't like that feature but I'm not the dev's so lol!

@jetah You can have alts, just in the same race. If you want to be a spy you need to play the part. Get a redeemed demon or a renegade beastkin. Its shouldnt be as easy as 'switching accounts/characters' to be a spy lol.

@jetah Lol, in the same way you dont like people knowing you have multiple accounts, most people dont like not knowing people have multiple accounts. Preference doesnt change that having multiple accounts ruins the whole point of being a character in a game world.

@jetah But BDO was different, there was no PvE race where people who played there didnt want much to do with PvP. Completely different scenario. In BDO you played knowing this, you would be involved in PvP and that was completely the game. There was no PvE race or section of that game and everyone consented to that once they played. Here you are trying to involve people who dont want pvp, go a race and area that is specifically designed to not have much, if any, just so you can mess with them. Lol... thats very different.

Also in the case of changing name, just have a system where their account name is permanent.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@Miffi Scams happen all the time. in Eve Online scams aren't disciplined by the developers, they actually encourage scams. example: I list a blueprint copy (which has limited build amounts) in a contract. I write on the title it's a blueprint original (which has unlimited build amounts). it's up to you to inspect it to see if it's a real copy or original. that isn't an exploit, it's a scam. If I'm selling a piece of gear for 500g and i post said item on a website, someone could pm me saying they want to buy said item for 50g. I can acknowledge the incorrect price of 50 or state it's 500. Depending on how many PMs i'm getting, how busy I am or I just have 50+ items on the market, I could forget the actual price and sell it for 50. that's a scam, not an exploit.

yes, its possible to burn some bridges with contracts and being jumped but there are new players joining all the time which wont know about it. at that point you just delete the character and start over or switch to an alt or have an alt post it while you jump them on your human/demon character.

---

I just want everyone to understand that it shouldn't be up to the developers to stop people that scam (not exploit). Yes, exploits should be fixed and some punishment should happen. Also understand that having a bounty system only apply to 1 alignment will suck for game play not to mention there would be no penalty to scam. a person wanting to scam should have some knowledge or fear that they could have a bounty placed on them. A beastkin could be good aligned but that doesn't mean the person behind the keyboard is the same. I'm actually a good and nice person, despite how I act here. I do like to argue, discuss(?), only to point out alternative view points.

I'll also encourage everyone to not fear pvp. it's actually a better challenge than any AI could give.

You havent really address the issue im pointing out though. If you get 'scammed' because yu werent watching your trade properly where you actually have to click YES, then you kind of deserved to lose out. Thats not quite the same as some random prick (most likely a demon, lets be honest - not saying all of them will be, but the demon playstyle does draw a certain type of person) wants to just ruin someone elses game. Thats the abuse and 'scam' that most people would rather avoid. Yes, means beastkin dont have to worry about that, but thats why they are playing beastkin in the first place, they want to avoid as much griefing and ganking in the first place. I'm not scared of pvp, i played BDO when it was good, at the start when pvp meant % loss at hard cap. I thrived in that game. But you saw a pattern of those who liked to 'pvp' only liked it when they knew they were stronger and were going to win. The second they saw they couldnt they ran away. I dont enjoy gankers and griefer and thats what that system would mostly be used for if evil aligned were allowed to.

@jetah But it makes no sense thematically either, a beastman wouldnt put a bounty on another beastman. Also scams are scams, thats something the devs will have to intervene in. A scam is not a trade. If you used an exploit, which is the case for 95% of scams, then u get banned or suspended. It has nothing to do with 'getting revenge' in game lol. And as others have already stated, once people start finding out that those asking for contracts are leaking info on trade routes, its their reputation that goes to the shit. A smart person is clever and doesnt burn future customers. Thats just bad business.

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@finland said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@jetah killers only. No point to punish someone offering a work. Would be easier to develop. If you make free bounties for all you must suggest also a system to prevent players to start no sense bouny. (Just for fun or rancor). I don like too much choice and liberty. I don't wanna risk to have a bounty on my head for no reasons.

where's the fun in a "no sense bounty"?

Thats what gankers and pker's are? Kill to be an ass? lol

@jetah said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@fibs

if good aligned players are exempt then they'll be the scammers in the city. and they'll get no retaliation because they'll always be good aligned.

Well the difference here is that you were present and looking for a trade. You were involved in the transaction and its unlikely your that stupid to not see numbers in the trade. And if you dont, well you kinda deserved to get scammed - this applies to everyone. In a bounty system, if you arent an evil aligned you didnt do anything to warrent a bounty except someone just doesnt like you. That isnt a valid reason, thats just griefing. And as Fibs pointed out, thats what a bounty system is; the acquisition of criminals. What you want is an assassination system. Again, thats an evil aligned idea.

@benseine said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

@fibs said in Player bounty boards (PVP):

No please. I've played games with bounty boards and they are always heavily exploited to grief players by repeatedly setting frivolous bounties on them over and over.

Maybe only allow to set a bounty by the killers victims. So once you got killed by someone you get the revenge option to set a bounty on the killer for one time. He killed you 3 times? You have 3 opportunities to set a bounty on him.

^ This is a good way of applying it. It can still be abused I'm sure but it does limit the degree of it. I have to agree that the point of a bounty is for criminals and those who have malicious intent. Doesnt make sense to have a bounty on someone who is not of that nature.

Whilst I understand your desire to have 'endless' content, its impossible with the rate at with people consume it. These days an expansion will come out and within the week the no lifers have finished the content and are complaining there isnt enough. The idea behind a sandbox though is that there isnt really a set linear content route but what that usually sacrifices is just that; a path to follow. It also means that it will be repetitive because its grinding. Grinding in nature IS repetitive. Now, if they do the exploration right that could mean practically infinite amount of gameplay time with asteroids and portals to pockets of space but other than that I'm not quite sure how it would be possible to implement what you're asking. Especially when there are no levels or exp involved in the game. Maybe you just mean the acquisition of resources to craft items or the discovery of a new spell? There will be 400 so that is quite a lot to search out.