@Prometheus

A Temple Offering is a monetary donation that can be performed once a day in the home of one of the Gods of Fractured.

are we talking about real money/Dynamight Gold here or in-game currency?

Even worse, you are only allowed to stay on Arboreus for half an hour at once, and you are quickly drained of all vital energies if you step into a Good-only area.

First of all I find the 30 minutes restriction too much. More importantly though, here are some questions; OK after 30 minutes I am kicked out, how long till I am able to return? Do I have a debuff not allowing me to return, or I may start preparations returning immediately. When first going to Arboreus, where do I land? When I am kicked out and then return (whether this is after 1 hour or 24 hours) where do I return to? Will I return to the area I was kicked out from?

If you’re Evil and looking to travel to Arboreus to go on a killing spree, you won’t succeed

Are you sure about that?

I can already see ways for my demon horde to bring death and destruction at Arboreus. Sure it will require some real planning and team work, but that challenge is very much welcome

For example;

1. I have some members of my guild to achieve neutral alignment (neutral demons have been confirmed). Then I send those ahead of the rest of us. They go and put themselves into key positions of the planet and then....

2. Evil aligned demons enter Arboreus and start killing and destroying. Sure after 30 minutes those will be kicked out but then.....

3. the second wave of evil demons will enter and then the third and the fourth and the fifth, all the while group 1 of the neutral demons will turn "aggresive", then group 2, then group 3.

4. Let's assume that I was in the first wave. Depending how easy and "fast" it is to go to Arboreus and whether I will have a debuff or not, I may return.

5. Depending the size of my guild or even the alliance of guilds that I am at, demons may have Arboreus at constant siege.

Yes, it requires planning and co-ordination, yes, I won't be there but for a measly 30 minutes, but my presence will be felt for days.

To put it simply; I am willing to bet that the aforementioned strong deterrents will create large and strong demon alliances with sole purpose of bypassing these deterrents. We PvPers will enjoy to play the cat and mouse game with the devs, finding legal ways to make our presence felt.

And now enter evil humans. I will contact large evil human alliances/guild and we will schedule attacks at Arboreus. 01:00 - 04:00 AM I will be sending 8 waves of demons. 04:00 - 08:00 AM the humans will be invading. And thus it is clear that Arboreus is far from safe.

Even if we will have a debuff for 30 days that will not allow us to travel to Arboreus, all "evil" players will band together once per month in order to bring chaos to Arboreus for hours, maybe even days, depending how many "evil" demons and humans are in this "unholy alliance". And be absolutely certain, this "unholy alliance" has just been made, regardless if I play the game or not.

If indeed your goal is to make Arboreus safe, you have only one way to go. Don't allow travel to it for evil and even neutral aligned characters. That of course should be accompanied with Arboreus not having unique resources, in order not to imbalance the economy.

All things considered though (that you want each planet to have unique resources, that you want Arboreus rather safe etc) I'd suggest lowering the deterrents towards the individual player. The more you are trying to stop the individual player to go, explore, Krash Kill N' Destroy, the more these individuals will want to do so and they will try to circumvent your deterrent systems by banding together.

You know what will stop demons from entering Arboreus and wreaking havoc? In-fighting. As long as you won't give the players who want to play in a FFA environment a reason to band together, they won't, and as such they won't be able to do much harm, cause most of the action will be at Tartaros. If you incentivise us to band together, then you will have the opposite effect.

@jetah said in First Fractured Gameplay Video Released!:

@prometheus said in First Fractured Gameplay Video Released!:

There is full collision between any type of creature (players included, in the same party and not). SpatialOS makes it possible! However, we might tweak the rules here too. Alpha testing will tell whether it's really feasible on a large scale or not.

if you ignore player collision then people/groups will become 1 death ball. Think of an RTS where you can move 100 units on top of each other. If there's player collision then creating choke points is useful, death balls are less; also still deadly, and would cause tactics to be necessary (at least I'm hoping).

Let me say the exact thing Jetah said in other terminology; full/friendly collision is an anti-zerg mechanic basically. Most players hate zerging. Zerging here is defined as a large group that will always win just because it is larger, in terms of numbers, than their opponents. This is happening at GW2, to state an example. As a result things like, skill, gear/progression and the like are less important than pure numbers.

If you want skill to have a significant role, then you need anti-zerg mechanics, and as I said, full/friendly collision is one, and a very important one.

@gibbx said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:

@phaethonas oki here is an example of the worst kind of gamer. you have a whole planet devoted to PVP. why do you feel you have to take PVP to a PVE planet and ruin the gamers playing experience there?

Why? Did you miss the memo in which it was clearly stated that each planet will have unique resources?

Why? Well, because I can.

If the devs want Arboreus protected at all times, then they should simply make a game like that and they should not make a mechanic which will allow invasions/travelling. In that case though they have to forget about their resources/economy plans as well.

How many times must I say this; You can't please everyone, you can't do everything.

If you want each planet to have its unique economy system, then in order for the overall economy not to be imbalanced you need the travelling mechanic. But as each planet is organized according to its rule-set, you will have people with different playstyles interacting. As a pvper I can compromise, to a degree, and have my life be difficult at the peaceful/pve planet. What is this degree? As long as the economy works.

The first thing I said was that 30 minutes are not enough. Are not enough for me to go, find the resources I need, gather them and leave. You know what this means? This means that I will seek help. And instead of a raging demon, you end up having a group of us.

Wanna know a fun fact? I don't need Fractured to be a pvp game. My "Unicorn" pvp game is Camelot Unchained. Having found that, I am seeking another game for my "pve tendencies". So, initially I wanted to play a beastman and maybe make a defense force. Proof of that is that my initial "hero" was a beastman. Now it is a demon. Now, I am more interested into being a demon. My idea of the "Unholy Alliance" intrigues me. Now, I want to make this "Unholy Alliance" because it seems that the demons are drawing the short stick. They get the poor planet and they can't even be for more than 30 minutes in the rich planet.

So, choose;

You can't have it all, I can't have it all, the devs can't have it all.

PS

Lady Luck smiles at the "Unholy Alliance". This is the 66th post and the thread has 666 views!

@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@phaethonas said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

@evolgrinz said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:

PvE players will be important. They generally will be the ones crafting weapons and armor, or growing and making food for everyone.
If PvP like to gank the PvE players the PvE players could use counter attack by just making all their stuff 5 times as expensive for everyone to buy

PvE players should not be confused with crafters. Gathering, mining, harvesting, processing, crafting and all those "professions" or however each game calls them are not pve gameplay as there is no "vs" part to begin with.

Sure, I suppose if someone is making an armor that armor may have an animal skin on it (or be made with it) and this animal skin may come from a boar or a bear that the crafter can kill. But mostly crafting isn't associated with this act, which by the way may be skipped altogether. Also, when we are talking about "pve" we mostly mean dungeons (open world and instanced), raids, open world bosses and the like. Lastly, as a demon pvper nothing stops me from killing a beastkin and raid and pillage his/her farm. Then I get everything I can carry on me and go to the demon planet and sell those for x10 of what they are worth at beast planet.

All that said, sure I get what you mean; PvE players and crafters don't appreciate being ganked and measures should be implemented from being ganked. But "ganked" has a meaning here and it is not "I killed you once" neither is "I am here now pillaging these farms". The later two are "non-ganked" pvp gameplay that Fractured will have. So, if I am a demon that is invading the beast planet and I am at your farm and I kill you, I am not ganking you. If you know that I am there and you keep coming, and I keep killing you, it still isn't ganking. Ganking would be if I would hunt you, pay no attention at anything else around me, find you everywhere you go (and try to hide) and keep killing you. Ganking would be me spawn camping lowbies and so on. If you want to return to your farm, then wait for me to pillage it and leave. But if you have 20 tons of wheat and I have carried 1 ton with me, be advised that I may return for the remaining 19 tons. So if I find you there when I come again to pick another ton of wheat? I will kill you and it won't be ganking.

Fractured seems to discourage ganking without discouraging pvp as well, which is what both pvpers and non-pvpers (pvers + crafters) want. It is confirmed that it will be difficult for a demon to invade the beast planet in the first place. It is also confirmed that a demon won't be able to stay indefinitely at the demon planet. It is confirmed that a demon will be weaker at the beast planet and thus an easier target for the non pvper beastkin. And lastly, it has been confirmed that the beast planet will have safe zones, for the beastkin to run to if they don't want to fight.

So, unless you are a care bear, Fractured's systems will be just fine for you. If you are a care bear, then Fractured is not the game you are looking for, sorry.

Funny! Ganking is when you go out for gathering and someone kills you! Ganking is when you go for escort something and you get ambushed! Ganking is when you go for an open dungeon and your team gets killed while fighting mobs! I can continue if you like.

Remeber that Players will be able to play safely on Arboreus. And stop telling that's not a game for care bears cause Devs told many times that they are going to make a game for all play style.

PvE = non PvP (All PvErs think the same, an Open World dungeon with pvp on and full loot it's not PvE). I consider PvE everything that's not related to PvP, so dungeons, harvesting,crafting and so on.

Killing someone who is gathering at an open world game with open world pvp as a feature, is not ganking.

It is not ganking when you are "escorting" something. Why are you escorting in the first place? The concept of "escorting" implies a danger from which you protect your caravan from. Sure, that can be a pve danger (e.g. the wolves' area from which the caravan has to pass through), but in an open world game with open world pvp that includes enemy players, whether these players are enemy faction (not applicable at Fractured) or opposite alignment (applicable at Fractured). If you don't like the latter then don't play a game with such gameplay features, as simple as that.

Ganking someone at an open world dungeon could be considered ganking depending the game. It is so easy to stop that from happening (e.g. make the open dungeon area a safe zone) that if the open dungeon is not a safe zone, then it should be considered a gameplay feature. Sure, it will be one with which you disagree, but in that case consider not playing the game. If the open world dungeon on the other hand is protected from ganking (e.g. it is a safe zone) then your problem is solved. (That said I do not know which way Fractured will go, but either way I don't mind personally).

Furthermore, you cannot make a game for all gameplay styles. I am not aware if the devs are trying to make a game "for all gameplay styles" but if they will try that, they will fail. It is literally impossible to succeed on that. And you should distinguish "all gameplay styles" from "multiple gameplay styles".

Do you want proof that the devs are not trying to satisfy everyone? There won't be instanced pvp and so far there is no instanced pve either. The devs are making a purely open world game.

So, the players at Arboreus will not be able to play "safely", although what is "safely" for each one of us is debatable.

Demons and evil aligned humans will be able to kill beastkin at Arboreus

Demons and evil aligned humans will be able to invade Arboreus and pillage its resources. Each planet's resources are different and the demon planet will not have a number of those, while the beast planet will have unique resources as well. As the devs have said it will be possible to buy [tier 5] [metal] at Arboreus for 1 gold per stack and then sell it at another planet for 10 gold per stack cause the same material will worth different prices at each planet, cause of availability. And while this has implications for trading (as explicitly said by the devs), it can be assumed that the same is applicable with looting, raiding, pillaging etc. After all the demons aren't invading Arboreus in order to get those materials through peaceful means (see trading) but through violent means (see pillaging). It would make no sense to have a demon "invasion" at Arboreus, with the demon having debuffs and timer over his/her head (after the timer's expiration the demon will automatically return to the demon planet), only to have that demon to trade the materials found only at Arboreus.

@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:

@phaethonas said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:

@finland said in Feature Spotlight #6 - PvP, Alignment & Crime:

@phaethonas talents/abilities are not related to the gear like Albion this means you can fight naked. Good point to avoid grinding in a game where you can lose things. If the game will be unbalanced somehow well give the right feedback

The game is getting unbalanced and I am giving the right feedback, as proven by the support I am getting. You just don't agree with that. But yeah, we know who you are. You disagree with a lot of things about Fractured and you want it to be another game. You have outright and explicitly said so.

I have more players to my side than what you think and I'm not changin Fractured. I just wanna bring the balance. You can ask @Prometheus if you want. I'm givin my feedback and a game for gankers is not the design of fractured or at least not Arboreus and Syndesia. Accept it and stop arguing or go somewhere else I think most of players are getting bored to read this. You are only thinking to your playstyle without care about the others.

I have no idea how many support your ideas but I am 100% sure that you want to outright change core things about Fractured.

You have said so yourself!

https://i.imgur.com/ofjSSiV.png

As for "gankers", I have said many times that Fractured can't be a game for care bears. Some things are impossible. So, having a game with PvP, care bears and three different planets with different economies is impossible. It is not a matter of "playstyle" anymore. This is what you fail to understand. You have to remove at least one of the three aforementioned elements in order to succeed.

Currently, Fractured will fail because the economy will either lead Tartaros at being empty or the demons will band together and ravage Arboreus, which then will make the care bears cry.

The solutions are three;

1. remove pvp altogether and make the game only for care bears

2. at one planet, plentiful at another) and make all planets equal/same.

3. remove the restrictions at Arboreus, or rather loosen them. Yes, this will drive the care bears away, but as I have said before, not all pvers are care bears.

Anything else, will ultimately fail, one way or another.

You may not care, because you clearly haven't been sold on the concept of Fractured (which you want to change), but some of us like some of the concepts of Fractured and we would like to play this game. Not another game, not a "changed" game, THIS game.

@finland said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

Another thread about p2w issues. And again that's not pay to win. p2w is when you can buy powerfull equips that are not aviable in the game (or extremly rare like 0,01 chance). Cosmetic does not give any advantage. About shop money to exchange we discussed about it already

Pay attention, no-one said that cosmetic items give an advantage per se. The thread is not against cosmetics, the thread is against RMT.

Whether you use cosmetics or a sub token or whatever to achieve RMT is irrelevant. The point is that;

• RMT + player driven economy = p2w.

Whether you say "this" or "that", it doesn't matter. Objectively it is at least the same as buying a sword with stats from the cash shop. Actually it is worse (see above comments). Subjectively, the majority of MMO players consider RMT p2w, as expressed via numerous polls at various sources, a MassivelyOP poll that was conducted lately among others.

Now, the solution is simple; Make cosmetics bind on pickup.

This way you won't have RMT.

@finland The game can't be for everyone!

Is it so hard for you to understand this? It is simple actually.

I want the exact opposite of what you want and you want the exact opposite of what I want.

As I have said before, everyone, the devs, the pvpers, the pvers, everyone, literally everyone, must make some compromises. But that doesn't work for everyone and everything, and all the times.

There are pvers that won't compromise, and they are called care bears. There are pvpers who won't compromise and are called "gankers". Fractured isn't a game for gankers as much as it isn't a game for care bears. Because to put it simply, Fractured wants to find the right solution and cater to both pvpers and pvers. To do so, compromises are needed. For both pvpers and pvers.

The only way to cater for both care bears and gankers, is if you remove a key concept of the game. The need for traveling between the three planets, aka remove the unique economic element of each planet.

But the devs clearly don't want that, they are building their game around that concept.

So, they have to compromise, make a stand and say; "Fractured is not for you care bears" and then add; "Fractured is not for you either gankers".

As long as they try to cater to everyone, they will fail. I have been saying this from day 1.

@prometheus said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

@phaethonas said in Cosmetic cash shop, RMT and p2w.:

Will it be possible to trade in-game Fractured's cosmetic items or not?

As of today, the plan is that it won't be possible. When you buy a skin for a race or for some type of armor or for a kind of pet, it just adds the option in your account to use the skin (it will reskin that type of item if you're wearing it, or that type of pet if you're controlling it). Same goes for cosmetic pets. None are actual in-game items, and there is no auction house where you can sell the skins etc that you own to other players.

More excellent news (and choices).

@fibs said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:

@phaethonas said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:

[various complaints about VIP]

Knowledge Points are effectively experience points, but boosting XP gain is not pay to win, because in any game it does not increase the power ceiling, and in this one it doesn't increase power at all. Your character does not become "stronger" from gaining Knowledge Points, except for a short duration from the very start of the game when you don't have enough skills to fill out your build. Fractured is a game of lateral development, remember.

Learning Slots are merely how many skills you can train at a time. Again, increasing these is not pay to win because they do not increase the power ceiling and in this game they don't increase power at all.

You may get to the top faster with VIP, but it is the exact same top. You will not disproportionately "win" against a non-paying player whose character is as equal to yours as possible without VIP, ergo you are not paying to win, ergo it is not pay to win.

So, if the level cap is 50 and I reach it at day one, but instead you require 5 months to reach it, that is not pay2win to you?! OK!

Furthermore, unlike a hard cap (used in games like WoW and SWTOR), Fractured, for all intents and purposes, will not have a cap. In order to gain all these knowledge points you will need A LOT of time. And by the time 1-10% of the population is about to reach the cap? An expansion most likely will be delivered, offering more things to be learned, and as such the knowledge point cap will rise.

Regardless, there is a misconception about "pay2win". Pay2win, at MMOs, is not limited at who wins at a 1vs1. Pay2win at MMOs, means that a player or a group of players, gain(s) an advantage, over another player, or group, just because someone opened his wallet.

This is why the "minute" and "innocent", "non-p2w", items sold at BDO's cash shop, that were supposed to offer just "quality of life" to the players, ARE PAY2WIN.

So, a player with more knowledge points than me, is a more versatile player. He/she can assume more roles, can hybridize, can experiment, can make mistakes etc. I can't. At a 1vs1, this may not matter. But Fractured is not a game revolving around 1vs1, is it? It is an open world, sandbox game, with a player driven economy. These games revolve around groups, and huge groups at that. Groups that most of the times are above the guild level, at the level of alliances between guilds. At that context, the guild with more versatile players and with versatile players that are more versatile than others, will win in a GvG.

@Pwnstar said in Unity has blocked SpatialOS - What's up and what it means for us:

Wow, Unity backed down and reverted the changes. That's very telling.

Improbable was a genius by getting the rest of the industry involved in this.

I hope you are sarcastic.

Improbable was the absolute douchebag (mind I remind you that after blowing this to extreme proportions they announced a joint fund with Unity's competitor to incite developers to change engines), and now Unity has to back down to basically bullies! Yeah! How nice!

@Mazikar said in Anyone into Ashes of Creation?:

I backed those guys quite a while ago. I had some high hopes for them... but damn. They have been messing up... they dumped the core audience for a Battle Royal'e game, monetized it and called it a beta to test a pre-alpha. ????? WTF? Okay.... and now they are going to make a castle siege game and monetize that for good measure. Man I just heard a toilet flush and watched my pledge disappear. I guess I am on a kicstarter loosing streak.

Ask for you money back. Especially if you are an EU citizen you have good chances at receiving your money back. Don't involve them (the studio). Ask at your bank and tell them that you bought A (an MMO) and you are having B (a BR game).

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