Posts made by Tuoni

@Kralith said in No Test Access but I should have it:

I think that needs to be directly communicated to @Prometheus in PM?

I guess there is no need anymore, you started to summon him already.

Same problem here and I also have this limited key.

@asspirin said in How should shields work? WoW vs. Vermintide style:

@Tuoni An when we´re at AOE attacks - will melee attacks with (for example) 2h blunt weapon attacking in "medium size cone" be considered AOE? It looks like melee aoe, but probably not, right

Area of Effect generally means a specific area, which is hit by an attack or a spell. It can also be a melee cone if that creates an area on the ground. However, melee attack can also be a cleave which can hit multiple nearby targets without using a specific area to do that. So there is this a small difference to be concidered, althought it might be easier to draw the line to generally AoEs be something that can not be blocked.

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Jetah You do not clearly understand how DPS is calculated in weapons, so it is quite vain to go any further. Have fun with your pointless and irrelevant comments.

and you're ignoring that we aren't using weapon attacks to fight. we're using abilities that use weapon damage range.

And I have left the abilities out of my comments for a good reason, those were not part of the discussion at first place, and we can only guess how all the abilities, which are not implemented will act with different players' playstyles and skills. You can freely talk about abilities if you like, but do it generally and leave my comments out, because those have nothing to do with your arguments.

@Gothix said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

Im guessing weapons will generally be balanced between each other.

Most likely yes and DPS is used there as one of the main factors.

Skills will be vastly different, and its not possible (or fun even) that every skill is exactly the same. But since everyone will have access to all skills and a free choice, that will provide the balance.

Hmmmm... This is a really good point, which is actually why not everything needs to be a 100% (or even close) balance. Of course notable gaps will be fixed, but there is no neccesity or rush to do so.

@Jetah You do not clearly understand how DPS is calculated in weapons, so it is quite vain to go any further. Have fun with your pointless and irrelevant comments.

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Jetah
some pictures

and do you think your character does 53.95 dps with skills with that weapon?

No I do not and I have not said anything like that either. Like @asspirin said, we have all the time talked only about weapons. You pulled all the other stuff in the conversation.

@Jetah

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni

It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.

Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.

Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.

min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.

Yeah so? Speaking of WoW, how those weapon damages are presented? Thats right, with DPS.

the weapon damage is presented per attack. the addons represent it in dps but in raids there's a few. one is dps. the other is dps averaged over the fight. again a burst class/spec will see very high initial dps but it'll lower until the next burst can happen.

Firstable leave classes, addons, raids and other unrelevant things out of the discussion. We are talking about weapons and stats in those.

In WoW for example, if you check a weapon's tooltip, you can find damage (range), (attack) speed and DPS. That DPS is there to show players what is the avarage damage so it is easy to compare different weapons between each other, or otherwise people should everytime try to calculate the effectiveness by themselfs. In addition, DPS helps a lot when devs are doing weapon balancing, because with DPS you get the average result what actually matters.

You can use Damage / minute in your own games, but lets use DPS in the real ones.

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni

It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.

Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.

Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.

min-max take into account 15 minutes to get an average per second. there are hunters and some rogues in WoW that can burst to 30k dps but after that burst they only sustain 5k until their CDs are up then they can burst again. (numbers are guesses but it's to show a point). that dps may be closer to 8k once averaged out. then you have moments where position and movement could impact dps.

Yeah so? Speaking of WoW, how those weapon damages are presented? Thats right, with DPS.

In Albion Online the developers dropped the idea of mixing freely dual wield weapons, because the balancing was getting a nightmare. However, in Albion there is abilities bound to gear so that is the main reason why it was getting too hard for balancing pov. In Fractured if there will be only stats in gear, I guess that is not so hard to eventually get in balance. This can ofc be a challenge, but still something totally doable.

@asspirin said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni Hoops, should have send it to Mr. Jetah, sry

Yeah, I got a little bit confused that was this really pointed to me or not.

@asspirin said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni It counts with averages, so it´s the same, just 60 times bigger, so theres no need for things like "attacks per minute".

Daaaa... thanks for this clarification.
DPS is clearly not shown in minutes, because it is less informative to players than shown in seconds.

@Jetah said in Dual Wield / Fist Weapons:

@Tuoni

It would be the same damage over a minute but not the same DPS.

Calculating damage / second (DPS) is a really standard way to measure damage in MMORPGs and actually generally in games. Reason for this is simply because fights are usually short and/or damaging is not constant, and rather fitful.

Actually, I have never heard of Damage over minute as a damage measure system, and for reason, it is not practical at all.

@Farlander I agree, it makes sense, that weapons have different attack speeds. If a specific weapon is slower it most likely will do more damage or have other benefits. Halberd was a great example, it has slow attack speed, it is hard to parry with it, but it has long reach and it will do a massive amount of damage.

At the end this all comes to balancing, where 2-h weapon and 2x 1-h weapon (at the same level) should do about same amount of dps. There can of course be some differencies between weapons, depending what else they will bring on the table on top of the damage.

1-h weapon + shield should ofc do less damage, but get more protection in same relation. Usually 1h weapon does about 50% to 100% less damage than 2-h weapon for example. Depending of course the amount of protective benefits.

@asspirin said in Magic resistance?:

@Jetah I was thinking exactly the same.
For example Bear-kin with already thick fur puts on fur coat - ready to sleep in the blizzard with comfort. Would some momentary cold damage him? Even people use Cryotherapy = -100°C for 2-4 mins without clothes. What monstrous sub zero temperature would it have to be to freeze a bear with winter clothes on Even absolute zero (−273.15°) wouldn´t do much to him if it only lasted a second. But i know, "it´s magic"

Lungs and airways will be damaged and freeze way before than -100°C, maybe about -60 to -70, so the thick fur can not help in all cases.

Speaking of blocking AoE, what about AoE attacks which will come from specific direction like a flaming breath for example? It would make sense to have a chance to block attacks like that, but is it anyway thought that you can not block any AoE attacks regardless how those will act?

@Jetah said in How should shields work? WoW vs. Vermintide style:

@Tuoni said in How should shields work? WoW vs. Vermintide style:

IF player collision will be implemented

could have sworn it was going to be in. maybe not in cities/towns but definitely in the world.

I remember some discussions as well and I guess the collision will be at least tested out. However, I can already see the chaos of larger ZvZ fights.

Oh well, one more reason play as a ranged damage dealer.

Maybe with shield a player can switch to a defensive stance, which would increase the chance to parry, reduce damage taken, but also reduce moving speed and attack power at the same time. IF player collision will be implemented, this would actually bring more strategy to group fights, when players can actually build a working shield wall..

@Gibbx is right, subscription means in gaming industry a payment you need to pay (usually monthly) so you can have access to the game. Without this you can not simply play.

Many games offers optional subscription, which are not needed to play the game, but gives players who are doing so certain benefits. These payments are usually called VIP, premium, PLUS -packages or something like that so people would understand the difference between an optional payment and a must pay subscription.

Someone who disagrees with me, please show me a single game, which is marketing as subscription game, but means optional subscription and I will take my words back.

I would like to see abilities which needs a shield to use, like we have abilities for specific weapons. Abilities can be different kind of self and group protections, protective buffs and maybe have some semi-offensive options as well, like shield bash or shield charge for example.